E-mail List Archives

Re: Available title indication via css


From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Nov 11, 2017 7:02AM

The title attribute has been supported in HtML for decades. Why should
the fact that browser vendors fail to support it make it bad for
If we always go by the "it's valid but no one supports it, don't use
it" we'd still be in the age of static HTML.

Isn't the point of standards to ensure authors can create universally
accessible content without having to code for the nuances of how
different user agents handle it, isn't that the responsibility of the
usre agents?

I discourage, well forbid, the user of title attributes on non
focusable elements (with the exception of abbreviations and
definitions, provided that the expanded form is available in text the
first time the abbreviation/definition is used in the document), but
there is no reason why the title attribute should not be accessible to
keyboard only users if the browser vendors did their part. It is
available to most popular screen reader/browser combinations (thanks
in large part to the accessible name calculation specification).

Why isn't the HTML standard updated to allow the title attribute on
generic or non focusable elements (other than where it has a special
purppose, and on images), but allow it on focusable elements, and push
browser vendors to display it on keyboard focus. That, or drop the
title attribute from the spec.

The "it's there, it's valid, it's been there forever, yet you
can't use it" approach is exactly why mainstream developers get so
frustrated tackling accessibility.

On 11/11/17, Patrick H. Lauke < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> On 11/11/2017 10:26, Wolfgang Berndorfer wrote:
>> Hi Bim,
>> Don’t only think of people with disabilities. Imagine, You find an
>> abbreviation on a website, You don’t understand: If the abbreviation is
>> visually perceivable as titled, You will hover with your mouse and get the
>> meaning of the abbreviation as a browser functionality. If the
>> TITLE-attribute wasn’t styled, You would probably not try to hover to get
>> information. The titled abbreviation just looks like any other
>> textelement.
>> Styling would help You, if You are sighted and can use the mouse. Even if
>> You need a magnification software, You benefit of the visual indication.
>> If You need a screen reader, the information You get, depends on Your
>> settings and not on the styling. But this is an other issue.
>> <span lang="de" title="best regards">Beste Grüße!</span>
>> Wolfgang
> You're tackling the problem from the "we should make the fact there's a
> title attribute on a random element visually clear", whereas the general
> advice really is "don't use title attribute in general".
> With the exception of MS Edge, no browser shows title attribute tooltips
> even on focusable elements. Arbitrary, non-focusable elements with title
> of course never show their title in any browser.
> Instead of making the use of title more enticing with styling, we should
> focus on avoiding title usage. For some elements like
> acronyms/abbreviations, title has a clearly defined additional benefit
> and per spec the expanded version of the acronym/abbreviation goes in
> the title. But for arbitrary elements, you're really still just working
> on something that for mouse users happens to provide a tooltip, but is
> useless to most other users.
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > >

Work hard. Have fun. Make history.