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html 5 required

for

From: John Hicks
Date: Feb 20, 2018 4:08AM

... ah ! apologies . I just have found this thread.

Still, I am wondering if there is a clean solution.

"Invalid Entry" ... vocally, is the equivalent of a red box around the
field upon focus. Such is not the case for visual users so there is an
equivalence problem here.

best,

John


2017-11-08 16:55 GMT+01:00 Tomlins Diane < <EMAIL REMOVED> >:

> Thanks everyone for your input, very helpful. Since it's apparent NVDA
> users are accustomed to it and it's a Firefox bug, then we'll move forward
> with the "required" value. I did run across a form on another site that did
> exactly the same thing!
>
> Diane R Tomlins
> HCA IT&S | Digital Media
> Accessibility SME
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Steve Faulkner
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:48 PM
> To: Beranek, Nicholas < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; WebAIM
> Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
>
> >
> > Now we find in testing, using NVDA 2017.3 with Firefox, NVDA announces
> > empty fields as "invalid entry" the first time the user focuses on
> > them, even before the error checking that takes place when a user hits
> > the Submit button.
>
>
> This is not due to any screen reader, it is due to the required attribute
> being exposed as required and invalid in browser accessibility APIs. The
> reasoning behind this is that until a required control has received some
> user input, it does not meet its validation constraints and is therefore in
> an invalid state.
>
> discussion of this is in a related Firefox bug
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?idf6544
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>
> On 6 November 2017 at 23:47, Beranek, Nicholas via WebAIM-Forum <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Diane, I recommend keeping the required attribute. For
> > compatibility, I would add the value "required", as well. You're
> > encountering expected behavior with NVDA and Firefox because, by
> > definition, since a value is required, lack of a value, or null value,
> > would be invalid. I am always hesitant to include a hack to appease a
> > browser/AT, and the use of the required attribute is a sufficient
> technique.
> >
> > Nick Beranek
> > Capital One
> >
> > On Nov 6, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Tomlins Diane <Diane.Tomlins@HCAhealthcare.
> > com<mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This just came up for us, and we just switched 70+ code files to use
> > the html 5 "required' attribute. Now we find in testing, using NVDA
> > 2017.3 with Firefox, NVDA announces empty fields as "invalid entry"
> > the first time the user focuses on them, even before the error
> > checking that takes place when a user hits the Submit button. So I
> > would think this would make things confusing for AT users.
> >
> > We tried adding aria-required="true" but that didn't help since we
> > still have the "required" attribute in there too.
> >
> > If I understand the replies to this thread, the "required' attribute
> > is still a patchwork of support between browsers and AT??
> >
> > Our developers won't be thrilled to back-pedal to take out the
> > attribute they just put in :-/
> >
> > Any possible workaround besides going back?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Diane R Tomlins
> > HCA IT&S | Digital Media
> > Accessibility SME
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
> > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 7:04 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
> >
> > I am confused. The label is exposed isn´t it, the way you wrote it.
> >
> > I can confirm that with NVDA after a form is submitted and focus is
> > moved to the field in error in some browsers NVDA only announces the
> > error and not the label. If you open the speech viewer you will find
> > the label is there -- which I believe indicates that the error message
> > is being treated like an assertive live region and somehow
> > interrupting the label from being announced.
> >
> > In our testing of the HTML required attribute in different browsers
> > the supports varied between browsers with screen readers. In
> > addition, some browsers use a red border to indicate the error state
> > while only providing a mouse involked tooltip further complicated the
> > use of the required attribute as it could be claimed color alone was
> > used to communicate the error visually to people with color deficiency
> > who were not using a screen reader.
> >
> > I would agree with Patrick that at this time if you need to support
> > multiple browsers and multiple AT the support is not there yet to
> > fully conform with this method alone. It's a shame because it's a
> > simple method that should be better supported without requiring
> > developers to implement more complex and costly solutions.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Jonathan Avila
> > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
> > (703) 637-8957
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
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> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> > Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 1:19 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
> >
> > I am confused. The label is exposed isn´t it, the way you wrote it.
> > If there is a title attribute or a placeholder, maybe those don´t get
> > exposed when you add the required attribute?
> > Which browsers/a.t. combinations are you using?
> > Are you using a proper label assocaition?
> > Are you using either a title or placeholder attribute (on the input
> field)?
> > Cheers
> > -B
> >
> > On 8/3/17, Angela French < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> > wrote:
> > Thanks for responding. I guess what confuses me is that if the cursor
> > goes to the field (with the required message) and the field is
> > labelled correctly, why isn't the label exposed again?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
> > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 2:51 PM
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
> >
> > On 03/08/2017 22:45, Angela French wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > We are trying to use the html 5 required attribute on required form
> > fields. In testing, I am finding that each browser I test with (with
> > NVDA) handles it differently. The problem is that in most browsers I
> > hear the message that a field is required, but it doesn't tell me
> > WHICH field it is referring to even though the cursor goes to the
> > first empty field.
> > The only browser that played very nicely on this was Chrome.
> > Curiously, even Chrome didn't read the required field message ("Please
> > fill out this field."). Rather it said "Last Name invalid entry
> > required."
> >
> > Is there a way to make this behavior consistent?
> >
> > In short: don't use required attribute at this stage, but instead
> > aria-required="true" and traditional custom error messages/bubbles.
> >
> > Regarding the "Please fill out this field", I assume you're referring
> > to the default browser error tooltip bubble? If so, last time I
> > checked (2 years ago), none of the browsers exposed the text they
> > visually present
> > -
> > http://developer.telerik.com/featured/building-html5-form-validation-b
> > ubble-replacements/#comment-2381878676
> >
> > So once again, better to use old custom-made bubbles to show error
> > messages (and then tie them to the relevant form field with
> > aria-describedby or similar).
> >
> > P
> > --
> > Patrick H. Lauke
> >
> > www.splintered.co.uk<;http://www.splintered.co.uk>; |
> > https://github.com/ patrickhlauke http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ |
> > http://redux.deviantart.com
> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
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> >
> >
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