WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: 4.1.1 Parsing > nested elements


From: JP Jamous
Date: Mar 31, 2018 11:52AM

Just throwing my 2 cents in here.

I agree with using the role on the Div and not the UL. Especially if we are constructing a dropdown menu. Personally, I prefer for the sake of semantic to use role on a div and stick with children divs to construct the dropdown menu.

I understand that UL is used to create navigation menus, because logically it contains a list of links. So UL is a container for unordered lists of something and using a role on it would overwrite its purpose. Whereas, DIV is used for almost anything. It's main purpose is to divide the pages into various segments. So using DIVs with CSS classes to construct menus and submenus, would be more logical from a HTML semantic prospective. It would not be the easiest way to do it, but that is the reason why in HTML most developers try to create components the easy way. Let's not forget that time is money and in an Agile environment, so many language semantics get violated for the sake of each sprint.

JP Jamous
Senior Digital Accessibility Engineer
E-Mail Me |Join My LinkedIn Network

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 9:57 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 4.1.1 Parsing > nested elements

> "elements are nested according to their specifications"

While ARIA isn't specifically called out by this SC and it's not a markup language I personally consider that when ARIA roles are applied to elements then descendant elements roles either explicit or implied should follow as well. For example, if you change an UL to role navigation then the you can't have dangling LI elements without a role like presentation or something else. In my example role navigation shouldn't be applied to UL it should be applied to a div above the UL.

Is this your opinion as well?


Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
703.637.8957 office

Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog

See you at CSUN in March!

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Faulkner
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 7:04 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 4.1.1 Parsing > nested elements

The criterion itself is normative and states:
"elements are nested according to their specifications"

If there is a nesting error found when conformance checking the HTML then from a strict reading it is a failure, it does not need an informative technique to state that.

But at the same time only a subset of nesting issues will cause accessibility problems, a <div> inside a <span>, for example, is not an issue that I consider a blocker.



Current Standards Work @W3C

On 29 March 2018 at 11:45, Fernand van Olphen < <EMAIL REMOVED> >

> Hi Steve,
> I agree with you that it is a PITA. But I feel that there is a subtle
> difference between guidance and instruction.
> I have to have some ammo if I am auditing a website and in my report I
> state that SC 4.1.1 is not met because there are incorrect nested elements.
> What if the developer is wcag-savvy, reads my report and slaps me back
> in my face, saying: :
> Incorrect nested elements? According to the Sufficient Technique
> number 4 I do not have to nest elements correctly, because I can pass
> the SC by a combination of H74, H93 and H94. So, to hell with your
> incorrect nested elements!
> What am I to say to him ? (Besides: you are fired!!!)
> Fernand
> De disclaimer van toepassing op e-mail van de gemeente Den Haag vindt
> u
> op: http://www.denhaag.nl/disclaimer
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >