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Re: More problems with tables, PDF, and screen readers

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From: glen walker
Date: Apr 4, 2018 12:41PM

Thanks Bevi. I'm using the built-in PDF converter in Word instead of a
plugin so that's the difference. I do this when I'm trying to create a
quick tagged PDF example, even though Micosoft's built-in converter has
issues. That's probably why the "First Column" checkbox in word doesn't
work either.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:30 AM, < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Glenn,
>
> Karen and Duff gave excellent advice about the other issues in your post.
>
> Here are my comments about the use of Save As PDF without having Acrobat
> or Adobe PDF Maker installed.
>
> First, there is a big difference in how various software programs convert
> a source document (like a Word file) into a PDF. The key concept here is
> that a utility, script, program, etc., must convert or translate the
> original file into something else. Some software do a better job of that.
>
> Second, a regular PDF is different from one that is accessible per the
> PDF/UA-1 standard. In order to get an accessible PDF from a Word document,
> the conversion program must be able to meet the current PDF/UA-1
> requirements, not just the requirements of a regular PDF. Again, some
> programs do a better job, especially in keeping up to date with the latest
> standards, requirements and industry recommendations.
>
> I believe that the File / Save As / PDF utility that ships with Word is
> Microsoft's conversion utility and I have not been satisfied with it for
> most documents that my firm has tested. Simple documents with just text and
> headings seem to be fine, but not those with more complex items like tables.
>
> I just took my Word file for testing tables and exported it 2 ways; one
> through Adobe Acrobat PDF Maker plug-in and the other via MS Word's Save As
> PDF utility.
>
> — The Acrobat PDF Maker version was perfect; one table tag holding a
> 3-page table with both Row and Column Header TH tags.
>
> — The Word Save As PDF version had the problem you're seeing; 3 separate
> table tags, one on each page. Each table did have both the Row and Column
> Header TH Tags.
>
> So I think the problem you're seeing in your files is that the Word Save
> As PDF utility isn't doing the job right.
>
> For those still reading, similar accessibility "shortcomings" happen when
> the Print to PDF option is used.
>
> Four options:
>
> 1. Continue to use your current Save As PDF method and then manually fix
> the PDF in Acrobat Pro DC or another PDF remediation program.
>
> 2. Purchase Adobe Acrobat Pro DC and let it install the PDF Maker utility
> into your Word ribbon. Then use the Acrobat ribbon to export compliant PDFs
> from Word.
>
> 3. Purchase CommonLook Office Global Access, which does the same job as
> Acrobat Pro and makes compliant PDFs from Word.
>
> 4. Complain to Microsoft about its poor Save As PDF utility. If users
> don't complain to the software companies, we'll never get the tools we need
> to make our ICT accessible. The URL to submit feature requests for all
> Microsoft products is at https://blogs.technet.
> microsoft.com/o365guy/2018/01/02/submit-product-feedback-or-
> feature-requests-to-microsofts-virtual-suggestion-boxes/
>
> For Word, it's at https://word.uservoice.com/
>
> Hope this helps you solve the mystery.
> —Bevi
>
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | <EMAIL REMOVED>
> — — —
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
> — — —
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 11:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] More problems with tables, PDF, and screen readers
>
> I do have the latest Office. I don't use PDF Maker (that I know of).
> From Word, I just do a Save As and choose PDF as the file type. I looked
> in Word > Options > Add-ins (and COM Add-ins) and there aren't any Adobe
> plugins. I don't have Acrobat.
>
> And yes, the table in my word document has a header row and row properties
> checked.
>
> But while I'm at it, is there a way to make row headers in a table?
> Column headers are easy. But I want the first column in my table to serve
> as the row headers so that when I navigate vertically through a column,
> I'll hear the row header before the cell value. I know I can add a
> bookmark within Word itself, and that seems to work when reading the
> document with word, but if I save as PDF, the row header information isn't
> saved. I want something like <th scope='row'> in my resulting PDF (or
> resulting HTML).
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 8:25 PM, < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Glen Walker wrote:
> > <Quote> We've run into the Acrobat setting for large documents before
> > but it sounded like this was a separate issue. I made a simple table
> > in Word that spanned several pages. When I saved as PDF, the
> > resulting tagged PDF had a <table> tag on every page with its own
> > <thead> and <tbody>, so there was literally one table per page. That
> > sounds like a bug in Word. </Quote>
> >
> > It was a bug in the Word-to-PDF conversion, but has been corrected
> > with the latest versions of Word and the Acrobat plug-in for Office, PDF
> Maker.
> > Sounds like one or both of your software programs is at least a year
> > out-of-date.
> >
> > Solution: Update both software programs. Current versions are:
> > Word 2016 version 1803 or Word 365
> > Adobe Acrobat Pro DC version 2018.011.2038
> > Adobe PDF Maker version 18 (the plug-in is installed with
> > Acrobat)
> >
> > There's a slight chance some operator error slipped into your file
> > too, so make sure the following is done in the Word file:
> >
> > 1. Select the header row and ensure that the Header Row check box is
> > selected in the Table/Design ribbon.
> >
> > 2. With header row selected, also go to Table Properties / Row / and
> > check Repeat as header row at the top of each page.
> >
> > With the right software and the right settings in Word, you'll get a
> > perfect table. Well, other than right now we get only 1 row
> > automatically tagged as the header, but understand that Microsoft is
> > aware of that shortcoming and we should be able to set multiple rows
> > as repeating headers in the future.
> >
> > — — —
> > Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | <EMAIL REMOVED> — — —
> > PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting '
> > training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services — — —
> >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >