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Re: [EXTERNAL] Role Application issue

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From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Jun 26, 2018 6:32AM

My personal opinion is that using role="application" might be ok in this situation. If I understand the situation correctly, it sounds like you are attempting to simulate the Windows desktop environment. If you use role="application" and mimic many of the keyboard shortcuts that are used in the actual environment, I think it might make the simulation possibly more accessible and useful to both to people who use the keyboard and people who use screen readers.
You likely will want to use native HTML controls and ARIA design patterns that best match what is used in the Windows environment to help with the simulation. However, there is likely at least some limitation to how closely the simulated environment can get to mimicking the actual environment.

If you do that, you may also want to provide some kind of help guide that explains what shortcut keys are available since you will likely only want to implement some of the keyboard shortcuts that are available in the actual environment rather than all the keyboard shortcuts that are available. Maybe even provide a link outside the role="application" that provides that information to users?

I hope that helps at least some.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Nikhil Mittal
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 12:58 AM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] Role Application issue

Hello,

Please have a look at our product in following youtube video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwu237E1qA.

We cant rewrite our project as it is already developed. As we are
simulating users machine so we dont have much option in terms of UX and UI.

Also as replied by you(Brandon) on stackoverflow the information about
enter key that by pressing it we will enter into the application mode. We
have similar requirement but need to do it by code whenever focus comes on
the body. Is there any way we can do this.




On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:19 PM Brandon Keith Biggs <
<EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hello,
> The only widget that you would need to allow the user to be in brows mode
> is the Internet Explorer application.
> I would pop them out of the edit mode and allow them to navigate as if they
> were really in a web page. That is going to be the most difficult of all
> the widgets because most of the keys have been taken by the web browser
> already.
> I would make sure you have at least one screen reader UX person working
> with you on this.
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 11:24 PM, Nikhil Mittal < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have various components in our widget area. Some of the *few* are
> listed
> > below
> > 1. Desktop
> > 2. File Explorer
> > 3. Control Panel/ Settings
> > 4. MS Office (Applications - Excel, Powerpoint, Access, word, Outlook)
> > 5. Internet Explorer
> > 6. Start Menu
> > 7. Task bar
> > and others.
> > Its kind of a personal machine inside a web browser.
> > Office component will support everything including panes, dialog boxes,
> > file menu *every *feature that office supports.
> >
> > We have provided role application because inside app Area we have our own
> > keyboard shortcut to interact with the application.
> >
> > Also when page is loaded then depending on the parameters provided above
> > widgets are loaded. There are more then 7000 scenarios for this.
> >
> > So it is not possible to actually find which will be the focused element
> > when page is loaded. Also sometimes inner component loses focus by
> calling
> > blur and then track key down on body for keyboard handling. So even if we
> > track the first focused element how can we capture the keys when focus is
> > moved in between to body by a inner component. Also considering the
> > complexity and vast code of widgets and components it is not possible to
> do
> > any change related to this in components. So looking for a common
> solution.
> >
> > Regards
> > Nikhil Mittal
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:23 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > The application role forces all screen readers into "application" or
> > > "forms" mode. All key presses are routed through to the webpage. In
> > > some screen readers it is not even possible to force browse mode with
> > > focus inside an element with role="application".
> > >
> > > Check out the role definition at:
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#application
> > >
> > > NOte in particular the situations in which the application role should
> be
> > > used.
> > >
> > > 1. Make sure no standard structure roles (listbox, grid, menus etc.)
> > > match the patterns you want to implement.
> > > 2. Remember that non-focusable content inside an application role area
> > > is not accessible to a screen reader user unless you associate it with
> > > a focusable element or place it inside an element with role="document"
> > > (even in that situation you may experience accessibility support
> > > issues, better to put the interactive portion in an application role
> > > than the static portion inside a document role).
> > >
> > > So if your whole page is an interactive widget, e.g. a spreadsheet,
> > > with no static text, or at least static text that is no more than 3 or
> > > 4 words and can be associated with a focusable element, you can use
> > > the application role (note rold="grid" is more appropriate for a
> > > spreadsheet).
> > >
> > > So make sure you have no other options, use the application role on
> > > the smallest part of the page possible. Good luck.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/22/18, Brandon Keith Biggs < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > From what I understand is you want one area that allows the user to
> be
> > in
> > > > brows mode and another area that requires the user to be in edit
> mode.
> > > > This is OK, but if you are making something like a word processor,
> > there
> > > > are only two widgets, the menu and the edit area. You can add other
> > > panes,
> > > > but that's pretty unusual.
> > > > Can you please explain why your design does not fit into the menu and
> > > edit
> > > > field widgets? Thousands of options sounds like a very extensive menu
> > to
> > > > me.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 12:14 AM Nikhil Mittal <
> > > <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> The widget in appArea is itself an application.
> > > >> It is similar to desktop application like microsoft office/ Paint
> and
> > > >> other
> > > >> desktop applications(number of interactive elements in that area
> > ~1000)
> > > >> These application change based on the scenario and having a fixed
> > > focused
> > > >> element is not possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> Also pressing enter as you specified in first option is not a
> solution
> > > as
> > > >> we want to pass every key from body to application unless user press
> > > some
> > > >> key in navigation area.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:28 PM Brandon Keith Biggs <
> > > >> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello,
> > > >> > There are two ways to interact with role="application".
> > > >> > 1. Hit enter on the application element and use the application as
> > if
> > > >> > it
> > > >> is
> > > >> > another web page. You can put other elements there and the screen
> > > >> > reader
> > > >> > will move through those elements in brows mode.
> > > >> > 2. Hit enter on the application and pop the screen reader into
> edit
> > > >> > mode
> > > >> > where all keys are passed to the edit widget inside the
> application.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You currently have 1, but it sounds as if you want 2. 2 is highly
> > > >> > discouraged unless you have a screen reader user testing UX or
> > > building
> > > >> > your app. Number 2 is mostly for games and is considered the
> > "canvas"
> > > >> > element for screen readers.
> > > >> > You do the second by doing the following:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <div role="application">
> > > >> > <input type="button" autoFocus="true" value="Click me" />
> > > >> > <p aria-live="polite" id="spk"></p>
> > > >> > </div>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The spk element is to send messages to the screen reader which you
> > > need
> > > >> to
> > > >> > do in this Window, Icon, Menu, Message (WIMM) interface. Remember
> > that
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > this mode, you need to program everything and users get upset if
> > > >> > expectations are not met.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You said you are making a word processor. This last option (number
> > 2),
> > > >> > is
> > > >> > NOT what you do to make a word processor. As a screen reader
> user, I
> > > >> > have
> > > >> > expectations and workflows for Word processors. You can't get that
> > > >> > functionality with programming it manually.
> > > >> > Instead, use the existing edit fields HTML provides for this
> reason,
> > > >> > such
> > > >> > as:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Menus/
> > Variation%20Standard%20Edits%20With%20Right%20Click/demo.htm
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please let me know if there is some reason why you would not want
> to
> > > >> > use
> > > >> > the above widget.
> > > >> > Thank you,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:55 AM Nikhil Mittal
> > > >> > < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Hello All,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > We are facing issue regarding accessibility for
> > role="application".
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > We have 2 widgets one is a complex widget for which we need to
> > > >> > > provide
> > > >> > role
> > > >> > > application as widget has its own complex keyboard handling and
> > > >> > > another
> > > >> > is
> > > >> > > navigator(similar to toolbar)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Now when body has the focus and user press down arrow the
> complex
> > > >> widget
> > > >> > is
> > > >> > > skipped and arrow keys goes to the navigator.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > The HTML is something similar to as specified below.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > <body> <div class="appArea" role="application"> .......//Complex
> > > >> widgets
> > > >> > > </div> <div class="toolbar"> ......//Buttons, dropdowns </div>
> > > >> > > </body>
> > > >> > > Our complex widget is designed in such a way that it captures
> keys
> > > on
> > > >> > body
> > > >> > > and consumes it. So as per our requirement if focus is on body
> > the
> > > >> keys
> > > >> > > should reach our complex widget.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Providing role application on body revokes us the default
> > > >> > > functionality
> > > >> > > that is provided by screen reader for dialogs and toolbar.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I have created a dummy implementation of our application at
> > > >> > > https://roleapplication.herokuapp.com/index.html
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Also same question has been posted at following stackoverflow
> link
> > > in
> > > >> > case
> > > >> > > more details are required -
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50798108/
> > accessibility-role-application
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Any help will be appreciated as we have spent days tackling this
> > > >> probelm.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Thanks & Regards
> > > >> > > Nikhil Mittal
> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Thanks & Regards
> > > >> Nikhil Mittal
> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks & Regards
> > Nikhil Mittal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >


--
Thanks & Regards
Nikhil Mittal