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Re: Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation

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From: Jonathan Avila
Date: May 8, 2019 2:37PM

It looks like the latest editors draft of the HTML Accessibility API mappings 1.0 includes placeholder in the name calculation. But to my knowledge that detail has not had a cross review by the Accessibility Guidelines working group.

https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/

Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Sailesh Panchang
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 4:34 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation

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The HTML 5 specs have always maintained:
The placeholder attribute represents a short hint (a word or short
phrase) intended to aid the user with data entry when the control has no value.
The placeholder attribute should not be used as a replacement for a <label>. For a longer hint or other advisory text, place the text next to the control.
https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/sec-forms.html#the-placeholder-attribute
Also see
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0030.html
Thanks,
Sailesh


On 5/8/19, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I am generally opposed to the placeholder being used as the accessible
> name because I believe it will lead to the sole use of it as an
> accepted way of providing a name rather than a fallback. The
> placeholder should not act as a label and should act as a hint. By
> including it in the name it encourages it's acceptance as a label
> rather than a placeholder. It's called placeholder for a reason and not a label.
>
> Would we accept the src of an image as fallback content for the
> alternative text of an image if no alt text was provided? What about
> the name attribute of an iFrame if no title or aria-label was provided?
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Detlev Fischer
> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 3:29 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
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>
>
> I seemed to remember placeholder has been included in the native HTML
> input name calc
> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#input-type-text-input-type-password-in
> put-type-search-input-type-tel-input-type-url-and-textarea-element
> <https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#input-type-text-input-type-password-i
> nput-type-search-input-type-tel-input-type-url-and-textarea-element>
> which @stevefaulkner has just confirmed - while the doc Accessible
> Name and Description Computation 1.2 https://w3c.github.io/accname/
> <https://w3c.github.io/accname/> doesn't list it. So I am not sure why
> these sources are out of sync and which one should be considered authoritative...
>
>> Am 08.05.2019 um 20:16 schrieb Steve Green
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >:
>>
>> Chrome's browser developer tools contain an Accessibility tab that
>> calculates the accessible name. That can be very helpful when testing
>> convoluted code you didn't write yourself, but the computation
>> appears to contain an error insofar as it uses the "placeholder" attribute.
>>
>> Bryan Garaventa's tool
>> https://whatsock.github.io/w3c-alternative-text-computation/Editable%
>> 20Live%20Input%20AccName%20Test.html
>> does not use the "placeholder" attribute, and since he was an author
>> of the Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.1 I am inclined
>> to trust his implementation rather than Chrome's.
>>
>> It seems that the computation rules are ambiguous when they say
>> "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute
>> (e.g. title) or element (e.g. HTML label) that defines a text
>> alternative, return that alternative in the form of a flat string".
>> Chrome is interpreting the "placeholder" attribute as a text
>> alternative but Bryan's tool isn't.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>> 020 3002 4176 (direct)
>> 0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
>> 07957 246 276 (mobile)
>> 020 7692 5517 (fax)
>> Skype: testpartners
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> www.testpartners.co.uk
>>
>> Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2
>>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Sailesh Panchang
Principal Accessibility Consultant
Deque Systems Inc
Mobile: 571-344-1765