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Re: Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation

for

From: Steve Green
Date: May 9, 2019 6:03AM

Thanks for the explanation for the change. However, it is still not at all clear how anyone is supposed to know which is the definitive version of the spec when there are similar, but different, versions with the same version number on different websites. I would have thought that the W3C website contains the definitive version but apparently not.

This really does need to be made very clear because when we conduct WCAG audits we make recommendations for changes that cost time and money to implement, not to mention the political cost of persuading stakeholders that the changes are necessary. This is made all the more difficult if people opposed to the changes can point to documents that appear to contradict us.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Faulkner
Sent: 09 May 2019 12:03
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation

placeholder was added back in to reflect the reality that browsers expose placeholder as an accessible name in the absence of other sources for it.
Whether one agrees or not with its inclusion, if browsers implement something and cannot be convinced to change it, we as spec writers document what is implemented. there is a related ARIA thread which may be of interest https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/17

As far as what spec to look at, the living spec https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/ is probably most accurate and the one to file issues on

--

Regards

SteveF
Accessibility is political[image: ✊]
Working for the web
<https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/940835584410574850>,
anywhere and everywhere [image: 🖖🏽]


On Thu, 9 May 2019 at 10:18, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> The change log at https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#a-1-change-log shows
> that placeholder was removed from the computation in 2016 and
> reintroduced this year. This change does not yet appear on the W3C
> website, so I guess it's not official yet, but I don't really
> understand the status of the GitHub website.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: 09 May 2019 00:22
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder and Accessible Name Computation
>
> Joe, I think you need to finish the sentence from the spec regarding
> native markup.
>
> "Otherwise, if the current node's native markup provides an attribute (e.g.
> title) or element (e.g. HTML label) **that defines a text alternative**..."
> (emphasis mine)
>
> So, yes, the placeholder attribute is a native markup attribute but it
> is not an attribute that defines a text alternative. As several have
> noted, it's hint and not a text alternative so shouldn't be included
> in the name calculation.
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 2:12 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> >
> > The Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.2 does not mention
> > it specifically, but it mentions " Otherwise, if the current node's
> > native markup provides an attribute (e.g. title)" from Step D.
> >
> > The placeholder attribute is a native HTML attribute for <input>
> elements.
> >
> > Thankx,
> > Joe Humbert
> >
> >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >