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Re: Controls on iOS Native App

for

From: allyssa jessicon
Date: Nov 2, 2022 7:33AM

Thanks Joe for your detailed response. I appreciate it!

On 11/2/22, Andrews, David B (DEED) via WebAIM-Forum
< <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> The question is, can a disabled person use it. I use VoiceOver, and if I
> change the control, does it tell me.
>
> You guys can get all hung up on your numbers, but they are not the end, they
> are to get us to us4eable web sites and apps.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 8:17 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Controls on iOS Native App
>
> This message may be from an external email source.
> Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all
> suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations Center.
>
> >
> I think I'm going to tap out after this email.
>
> I have stated my opinions and it seems like you are looking for reasons to
> fail something for WCAG, that is your choice, WCAG for native mobile is
> definitely super open to interpretation because none of the guidelines are
> specifically written for native mobile. Plus accessibility is a living,
> changing thing and new interpretations are constantly proposed, discussed
> and sometimes agreed upon.
>
>>> If dev are using a switch and making it look like a checkbox but the
>>> checkbox (actual switch) does not work as expected (role and state is
>>> missing or not acting as expected( then can it be failed against WCAG
> 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value?
>
> Probably not, because if they were using a native switch, it would
> automatically have a role and states. Now the accessible name may be
> missing, but that is a different situation, plus I said I don't recommend
> this approach. Something for you to think about, How do you know they are
> using a switch if it is not reporting the correct information?
>
>>> There are situations like Remember me checkbox in a login screen where
>>> the most appropriate role would be a checkbox and if the dev are using a
>>> switch ther instead it will completely misslead the VO user, what do you
>>> say?
>
> Well, they are misleading all user by using a checkbox in the first place
> because there is no native checkbox on iOS. Also, WCAG 4.1.2 states "For all
> user interface components (including but not limited to: form elements,
> links and components generated by scripts), the name and role can be
> programmatically determined; states, properties, and values that can be set
> by the user can be programmatically set..." this does not explicitly say
> the roles and states have to match the visuals. That potential issue fails
> under WCAG 1.3.1 Info and Relationships. WCAG 4.1.2 just says the that
> these attributes "can be programmatically determined" and "can be
> programmatically set". On iOS there is no way that I know of to provide a
> programmatic state of "unselected" or "unchecked" except in the
> accessibilityLabel which is a string and the name, not the role or state.
>
> Checkboxes are a HTML control (and also on Android). Native mobile apps
> don't always have to follow HTML patterns. That being said, if a checkbox is
> really necessary, use a webview for the login and a properly coded
> accessible HTML checkbox.
>
> Good luck and keep asking questions.
>
> Thankx,
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> allyssa jessicon
> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 8:27 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Controls on iOS Native App
>
> If dev are using a switch and making it look like a checkbox but the
> checkbox (actual switch) does not work as expected (role and state is
> missing or not acting as expected( then can it be failed against WCAG
> 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value?
>
> There are situations like Remember me checkbox in a login screen where the
> most appropriate role would be a checkbox and if the dev are using a switch
> ther instead it will completely misslead the VO user, what do you say?
>
> On 11/2/22, Joe Humbert A11y (Android) < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> You cannot fail something for a state that is not supported by the OS
>> or the assistive tech.
>>
>> In addition, developers using custom non-native elements when their is
>> a native element that supports all necessary roles and states (switch)
>> is just bad user experience. We are on iOS 16 and Apple has yet to add
>> a native checkbox.
>>
>> Heck developers can make it look like a checkbox, but act like a switch.
>> But again bad user experience for a Visual VoiceOver user.
>>
>> Thankx,
>> Joe
>>
>> On November 2, 2022 7:59:18 AM allyssa jessicon
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't you think that not selected state also fails WCAG 4.1.2 Name,
>>> Role, Value? and if both fails, there will have a lot failures in
>>> apps wherever they have used checkboxes (visually)
>>>
>>> On 11/2/22, Joe Humbert A11y (Android) < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>> Since iOS does not have a native checkbox and VoiceOver does not
>>>> announce a "not selected" State (there isn't one unless it is added
>>>> to the accessible name), the only WCAG violation that I can see is
>>>> WCAG 4.1.2 Name, Role, Value because the element has no role ( I
>>>> don't count the "Double-tap to activate" because it can be disabled
>>>> by users, but some people do).
>>>> Again,
>>>> here the only available role that somewhat fits is button.
>>>>
>>>> I still think it should be a switch instead of a checkbox.
>>>>
>>>> Thankx,
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> On November 2, 2022 7:40:45 AM allyssa jessicon
>>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your quick response Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is specific to any native app where checkbox/toggle
>>>>> button have been used which does not announce the role and unselected
>>>>> state.
>>>>> is this a WCAG violation in any way?
>>>>>
>>>>> An example would be, a Remember me checkbox in a login screen (Any
>>>>> 3rd party iOS native app)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/2/22, Joe Humbert A11y (Android) < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Allyssa,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure which elements you are talking about so I might need
>>>>>> a reply to provide better guidance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, iOS does not have a native checkbox element. Any element
>>>>>> you see that visually looks like a checkbox is just that, a
>>>>>> clickable element that looks like a checkbox. If Voiceover
>>>>>> announces a selected state when "checked" then it has been given
>>>>>> an accessibilityTrait of selected. It has no role because there is
>>>>>> no checkbox role in iOS. In my opinion the developer should add an
>>>>>> accessibilityTrait of button. Or better yet, use a native switch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the toggle button, I'm not sure what you mean. As it could
>>>>>> be a lot of different elements. But similar to the checkbox,
>>>>>> there is no native iOS right button element. So the developer is
>>>>>> again using the accessibilityTrait of selected when it is toggled.
>>>>>> This element should also have an accessibilityTrait of button.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To my Current knowledge, and I'm happy to be corrected, Apple
>>>>>> VoiceOver developers consciously decided to not have most elements
>>>>>> announce an "unselected", "unchecked" state. The exception might
>>>>>> be a switch which has states if off/on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thankx,
>>>>>> Joe Humbert
>>>>>> Mobile accessibility novice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On November 2, 2022 7:06:30 AM allyssa jessicon
>>>>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good morning!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Straight up to the question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the exp]ected behaviour of checkbox and toggle buttons in
>>>>>>> native mobile applications in iOS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems that only the selected state is getting announced by
>>>>>>> VoiceOver, for an example if I navigate to the VoiceOver rotor
>>>>>>> settings, its announcing as Selected (without role) and if I
>>>>>>> uncheck the same, VoiceOver does not announce anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this an expected behavior? or are there something that I am
>>>>>>> missing?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Allyssa.
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>>
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