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Re: Custom bullets in InDesign and Actual Text


From: Christine Hogenkamp
Date: Nov 15, 2022 10:31AM

In my previous email I meant to write "all lists are unordered lists"
instead of what I actually wrote: "all tags are unordered tags"
My apologies, this accessible PDF stuff makes my brain tired lol

*Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
Front-end Developer
ContextCreative.com <http://contextcreative.com/>;

*We've moved! **Our new address is:*
*172 King St. E., Suite 300, Toronto, ON M5A 1J3*

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:06 PM Christine Hogenkamp <
<EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> @Colleen: Thank you for explaining and for flagging in the first place! I
> did a test PDF to see what you meant and it did convert any numbered lists
> to say "bullet" instead of the number.
> Anyone feel free to correct my understanding, but I did some poking around
> and it seems what the Preflight fix does is that it takes any list and adds
> the default bullet symbol to the Actual Text box for each <Lbl> tag (this
> is where bullets or numbers are supposed to go within the parent list tag)
> so if I removed this bullet symbol from the Actual Text box then the list
> number was read by NVDA as it should.
> Part of the problem seems to be that in PDF tags, there is only the one
> list tag. As a developer, I am used to having two types of list tags, one
> for numbered lists <ol> and one for unnumbered lists <ul> but PDF tags only
> has <L> and its inner tags for label, body, etc. So it's strange that the
> Preflight fix would explicitly mention unordered tags when the reality is
> that in PDF tag terms, all tags are unordered tags so it makes sense that
> the fix adds the bullet symbol to every list regardless of whether it uses
> a symbol or number to start each list item.
> In my googling around, I have not come across a PDF standards approved way
> to indicate that a list is a numbered list. So it would seem that Colleen's
> manual fix option is the only way to remediate a PDF with numbered lists
> when you use the Preflight fix. And whether you decide to use the Preflight
> fix will depend on whether your PDF uses only unordered lists, or has a
> mixture of unordered and ordered and how many of each.
> It's just so strange that Adobe would create this fix but not consider
> what would happen to ordered lists, they must be aware of the singular <L>
> and that Acrobat would have no way to tell the difference between the two
> types of lists unless they create such an option in either InDesign or
> Acrobat. Puzzling!
> *x*
> *Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
> Front-end Developer
> ContextCreative.com <http://contextcreative.com/>;
> *We've moved! **Our new address is:*
> *172 King St. E., Suite 300, Toronto, ON M5A 1J3*
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 5:07 PM Colleen Gratzer < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>> Sure, Christine.
>> What I meant is that it will add actual text to the numbers of a list
>> and voice them as "bullet" instead of the original number.
>> Colleen