WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: SmartArt and Alt Text

for

From: Lori Schulze
Date: Feb 3, 2023 7:35AM

Thank you everyone for your insight and expertise. As always, it was
helpful.


*Lori Schulze* | Director
Center for Educational Networking (CEN)
6412 Centurion Drive, Suite 100
Lansing, MI 48917
517-908-3904
<EMAIL REMOVED> | www.cenmi.org

*The Center for Educational Networking is an Individuals with Disabilities
Education Act (IDEA) Grant Funded Initiative through the Michigan
Department of Education, Office of Special Education.*


On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:39 AM Karen McCall < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> I've written about this and suggest that you create your SmartArt in the
> application so that the colours and fonts match the Word or PowerPoint
> content, then select the SmartArt graphic, Cut it from the document, then
> paste it as a picture and give it Alt Text.
>
> There are relationships between SmartArt pieces that cannot have Alt Text
> added so any relationship is lost, as has been mentioned.
>
> As someone using JAWS, I can add the text parts and to some extent
> graphics for those that allow graphics but have no idea what the SmartArt
> really looks like or whether I'm representing the relationships correctly.
>
> I'm using Microsoft 365 Insider Channel and this issue has been around as
> long as we've had SmartArt. It is the same problem with grouped
> shapes/connectors. Create the effect/organizational thing you want, group
> the objects, Select them, cut them from the content and paste as picture
> then give the picture Alt Text
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Steve Green
> Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 4:28 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] SmartArt and Alt Text
>
> I have only done a little testing of Smart Art, but everything I have seen
> supports what Nick says.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: 03 February 2023 09:23
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] SmartArt and Alt Text
>
> I'm working on some PowerPoint accessibility for a client and finding that
> screen reader behaviour with Smart Art and grouped shapes in general is
> quite poor. I'm using PowerPoint 365 on Windows 10.
>
>
>
> When navigating to a piece of SmartArt with NVDA 2022 it just announces
> 'shape' and does not mention any text within the SmartArt. Pressing Enter
> starts navigation within the SmartArt, then the Tab key to move from
> element to element, but again there is no announcement of any text. I've
> not done exhaustive testing, but there's no reason to believe the behaviour
> will be much different with different types.
>
>
> JAWS 2023 announces the text of SmartArt (in its entirety). Again,
> pressing Enter enters navigation and as you move from block to block with
> Tab, JAWS announces the text, along with heading/list level info, and
> sometimes numerous instances of 'blank'. The reading order is often
> incorrect and there's no way to change it because the Reading Order pane
> treats it as a single object.
>
>
>
> There is no semantic information about the structure of the SmartArt (not
> that I would really expect this), so users have no idea what how each piece
> relates to each other (e.g. whether there's a hierarchical relationship,
> whether it's a linear process, etc). You could add alt text, as this is
> read out before the text contained within the SmartArt, and this may or may
> not clarify - it all depends on the specific diagram and its complexity.
>
>
> I don't like using SmartArt in general as it doesn't allow me the level of
> fine tuning I need in layout. I would generally create individual shapes to
> build up a diagram, but that itself has issues. For instance. If you group
> a bunch of shapes and provide suitable alt text for this group, both JAWS
> and NVDA then navigate through the individual elements within that group
> and announce what they are, even if they are individually marked as
> decorative.
> It's potentially very confusing for the user. A quick workaround for a
> multi-component shape is to create and group the elements, then use
> PowerPoint's in-built 'Save as picture' functionality to create a png (you
> can do the same thing with SmartArt too). Then insert the png, add alt
> text, and delete the original version. You could of course create the image
> in a proper illustration package as you'll have more control over image
> quality, but this is a quick way round if you don't have access/time for
> that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> - - -
>
> Nick Bromley
>
> Director & Accessibility Consultant
>
> Red Kite Digital Accessibility Ltd
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori Schulze <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: 01 February 2023 21:30
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [WebAIM] SmartArt and Alt Text
>
>
>
> I'm trying to find out if alt text should be added to SmartArt, either in
> Word or PowerPoint. I have found conflicting answers.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure how AT users interact with SmartArt. If it does need alt
> text, should it be applied to the individual components?
>
>
>
> Any guidance is appreciated. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Lori Schulze*
>
> Center for Educational Networking (CEN)
>
> 6412 Centurion Drive, Suite 100
>
> Lansing, MI 48917
>
> 517-908-3904
>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> > <EMAIL REMOVED> | <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cenmi.org%2F&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gagKyZYOfQ%2BYeuaoW1TEyN0vvxljYLPZCIbi58vD7sI%3D&reserved=0>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cenmi.org%2F&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gagKyZYOfQ%2BYeuaoW1TEyN0vvxljYLPZCIbi58vD7sI%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> *The Center for Educational Networking is an Individuals with Disabilities
> Education Act (IDEA) Grant Funded Initiative through the Michigan
> Department of Education, Office of Special Education.*
>
>
>
>
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gcIb6iclaTYApf3wAbQbpIkJg2iDfhPGzza8aiiKuaA%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0s3puaIVXRHOZcZYybw8MzlzHP31lWoeBShXKDvxBOU%3D&reserved=0
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gcIb6iclaTYApf3wAbQbpIkJg2iDfhPGzza8aiiKuaA%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7C%7C2e31802b714744736b5508db05c8ee59%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638110132785532435%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0s3puaIVXRHOZcZYybw8MzlzHP31lWoeBShXKDvxBOU%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > >