WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Jaws and Microsoft Teams

for

From: Geethavani.Shamanna
Date: Feb 17, 2023 3:12AM

Hi all,

This list may not be the right place for this question, but I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

Jaws support for MS Teams, particularly reading chat messages, is a little patchy. When a chat/feed message arrives and the screen reader focus is in another window, Jaws simply has an alert message stating that there is a new message. It could instead read out the message text. With active meeting chats this is particularly annoying.

Has anyone found a workaround to resolve this issue?

Many thanks.
Geetha
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: 17 February 2023 02:07
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resolving Lag With Jaws in an HTML Application Element Using Aria Live Regions

CAUTION: This mail comes from outside the University. Please consider this before opening attachments, clicking links, or acting on the content.

Yesterday's JAWS 2023 release included some changes to live region handling with ARIA Atomic. It would be interesting to know if this helps.
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Feb 15, 2023, at 8:51 AM, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> That sounds like it will work, but the debounce period will introduce a delay between pressing a key and hearing the speech for all screen reader users. It's worth experimenting, but you may find that the delay annoys even more people.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: 15 February 2023 12:00
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resolving Lag With Jaws in an HTML Application
> Element Using Aria Live Regions
>
> You should be able to fix the second problem by using a debounce function for writing messages to the live region.
>
> While the user is pressing keys quickly and repeatedly, the debounce function will prevent any messages from being written to the live region until the user pauses longer between key presses. This won't alter how NVDA currently speaks the information while preventing the JAWS speech queue from loading up with old messages it has to process.
>
> It is something I have used for character counters.
>
> Thanks!
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Steve Green
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 12:13 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resolving Lag With Jaws in an HTML Application
> Element Using Aria Live Regions
>
> Now I understand and I can hear the difference between JAWS and NVDA. Unfortunately, I don't think you can make JAWS work the same as NVDA because they handle queued changes to the live region differently. JAWS queues all the changes and announces them all, which is why it says "long ramp" after you have moved to an empty space. By contrast, NVDA announces the most recent change and dumps all the previous ones. That is a desirable behaviour in your application, but it is not in some others. It would be nice if the author could control this behaviour, but it is not possible.
>
> The ARIA 1.1, 1.2 and draft 1.3 specifications for live regions says "User agents or assistive technologies MAY choose to clear queued changes when an assertive change occurs. (e.g., changes in an assertive region may remove all currently queued changes)", so both JAWS and NVDA meet the specification in the case of an assertive region.
>
> Curiously, the specification does not say what should happen to queued changes in polite regions, which is what you are using. Perhaps the specification authors thought it was obvious that the queued changes should all be announced since they are not time critical. If that is the case, NVDA's behaviour is incorrect. But we don't know because the specification doesn't say and it doesn't look like there are plans for it to do so.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: 15 February 2023 03:00
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Resolving Lag With Jaws in an HTML Application
> Element Using Aria Live Regions
>
> Hello,
> It sounds like the objects menu opened when you hit enter in the application. Try hitting escape, then pressing backslash. You don't want any menus open when you hit backslash.
> It's an application specific command.
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbran
> donkeithbiggs.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7
> Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7
> C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata
> =N3wzDgyMAA009MrIYfExic3azKFTFNYHLDjluSoNei0%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 4:45 PM Steve Green
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
>> The backslash key doesn't do anything on my machine with JAWS 2021
>> and the latest Chrome. When I arrow through the list I hear JAWS and
>> the web TTS read each item, but at different speeds. I can't get it
>> to use one or the other - it's always both.
>>
>> NVDA works fine.
>>
>> What is the backslash key supposed to do when it is passed through to
>> JAWS? It doesn't appear to be a standard JAWS command.
>>
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
>> Of Brandon Keith Biggs
>> Sent: 14 February 2023 23:40
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Resolving Lag With Jaws in an HTML Application
>> Element Using Aria Live Regions
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> If there is a better place to send this, please let me know. I am
>> developing a web application to work with Jaws.
>>
>> I am wondering how to remove the strange lag with Jaws sending keys
>> to an application and Jaws failing to clear aria live region text
>> from its buffer? On our application site:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
>> .audiom.net%2Fembed%2F6%3FapiKey%3Db_e0xbMW4_hk9tDtOYMrZ&data%7C01
>> %7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8b
>> a%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CU
>> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h
>> aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ge%2FFnxoHP%2Bea3xAWd5HWZxXc
>> SEMutgyQNa8nUh%2BHgp4%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> 1. Using Jaws, arrow down to "Audio Map On" and hit enter. This will
>> pop you into application mode. Now hit backslash "" and it will use
>> your screen reader rather than web TTS.
>>
>> 2. Now press the down arrow repeatedly. There is a 50-100ms delay
>> between each key press that vanishes when using NVDA or no screen reader.
>>
>> 3. Go to coordinate 35, 17 on the "long ramp" and quickly repeatedly
>> arrow to the right until the sound changes. You will hear "long ramp"
>> still announced when you hear the sound change when using Jaws (if
>> you press the right arrow fast enough). Using web TTS or NVDA, there
>> is no problem clearing the buffer, and you hear "empty space" right away.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if you have any ideas on how to resolve these usability
>> issues with Jaws in a browser application?
>>
>> Our Jaws users are quite unhappy with these bugs, and I don't know
>> how to resolve them, especially since they are not present outside of
>> Jaws. I'm using Jaws 2023 in the latest stable version of Chrome.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbra
>> ndonkeithbiggs.com%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk
>> %7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd98168
>> 5%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&
>> sdata=N3wzDgyMAA009MrIYfExic3azKFTFNYHLDjluSoNei0%3D&reserved=0>
>> >> >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist
>> .webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61d
>> c44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7
>> C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
>> CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w
>> 5KMZegxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0 List
>> archives at
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fweba
>> im.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40o
>> pen.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8
>> e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&res
>> erved=0 >> >> >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist
>> .webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61d
>> c44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7
>> C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
>> CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w
>> 5KMZegxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0 List
>> archives at
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fweba
>> im.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40o
>> pen.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8
>> e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&res
>> erved=0 >>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61dc4
> 4aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%
> 7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w5KMZe
> gxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0 List archives
> at
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40ope
> n.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5f
> d981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&reserved> 0 > > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61dc4
> 4aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%
> 7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w5KMZe
> gxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0 List archives
> at
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40ope
> n.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5f
> d981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&reserved> 0 >
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61dc4
> 4aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%
> 7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w5KMZe
> gxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0 List archives
> at
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40ope
> n.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5f
> d981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&reserved> 0 > > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40open.ac.uk%7Ce61dc4
> 4aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5fd981685%7C0%7C0%
> 7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w5KMZe
> gxlIW5h%2Bs4W1HZegmZHl%2FAzFctjCAlL8HF91I%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cgeethavani.shamanna%40ope
> n.ac.uk%7Ce61dc44aa1b542d6313308db108bb8ba%7C0e2ed45596af4100bed3a8e5f
> d981685%7C0%7C0%7C638121964506401724%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=SY%2BMvBgXCJXAHyzgsBl%2FhVxPYi5aPZzcVxGuXI80p3k%3D&reserved> 0