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Re: PDF Reading order question

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From: Joshua Hori
Date: Aug 2, 2024 6:21PM

Here’s a video from Shawn Jordison on how to tag a PDF properly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xlkw-ItMH4&list=PL2GnpAhfNiFE-EYzE52ZVf1s0Kw3FJz1F&index=3

He discusses some of the tags in the PDF which are visual groupings only and may be the content labels you’re describing. He has a playlist that you can reference for PDF accessibility.

I agree with Phillip’s reading order tip. I would just like to add that many blind users start off with visual guidance as they learn screenreader technology, so logical reading order matching visual reading order is helpful with training or working with visual assistants.

Best,

Joshua

From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > on behalf of Philip Kiff < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Date: Friday, August 2, 2024 at 4:24 PM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF Reading order question
Hi Jon,

Like Joshua, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Content Label". But,
let's assume that whatever they are, they aren't really headings, but
some other short signifier - maybe a category tag or keyword or phrase -
that doesn't constitute a paragraph. I would be inclined to tag the
Content Labels with H3, but I don't see anything wrong with tagging them
with simple P instead, and I might even prefer P sometimes depending on
the content itself. I don't think there would be any accessibility
advantage in using H3: since each Content Label always follows H2 and
there is one and only one after each H2, then I don't see what practical
difference it would make.

In terms of reading order, I personally prefer to move content like a
logo (and therefore company/author name) to the top of the document
reading order where I think they fit better in terms of the logical
structure of the document, rather than sticking them in the middle of a
document by following the reading order one would get by starting at the
top left and progressing down the page. In your case, I'd move the
social media links as well, and order them like this:
H1
Company logo
Company website
Social media links
H2
...

Structurally, items like the title, author, date, and logo - all those
would normally make sense to place close to the top of the document
reading order, regardless of where they appear on the page. In some
cases, such content can instead be placed at the end of the document.
But no one will expect it in the middle.

Something like a copyright statement and disclaimer may make sense to
leave at the very end of a document, but if the document provides
medical or legal advice, then I would ask the client if it might make
more sense to place the disclaimer close to the beginning of the reading
order instead - and I would follow their advice as they are best
positioned to know how to communicate with their intended audience.

I don't think there is a standard or guideline that provides strict
rules in such cases. Technically, I think the WCAG tends to favour the
author's "semantic" intention, while PDF/UA tends to favour something
they call "logical" order. But I know some folks who remediate PDFs
believe that the reading order should match the visual/physical order as
closely as possible because I think they consider the placement on the
page to be part of the significant semantic meaning. And they aren't
wrong. So that doesn't help deciding. There are two competing orders.

I tend to base such choices on my own understanding of the specific
document at hand, combined with my knowledge of document structures and
reading habits generally. When in doubt, I ask the author (if possible)
what they intended in order to help me make a final decision.

Phil

Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

I don't On 2024-08-01 4:27 p.m., Joshua Hori wrote:
> Hello Jon,
>
> My apologies, but can you clarify what Content Label is? I’m not familiar with this term when applied to PDF’s.
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua
On 2024-07-31 1:08 p.m., Jon Metz wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have a reading order question for y'all. It's not life-or-death, but I'm having a disagreement with an accessibility vendor (with accessibility experts I know and respect, FWIW). As I have ASD, it's difficult for me to know if I'm wrong or overthinking my opinion on how to handle this situation.
>
> Physically, the PDF is like this:
>
> Page 1
> H1
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> Company Logo on the left, social links on the right, company website under the social links
>
> Page 2:
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> Disclaimer
> Copyright info
>
> My question is, how would you tag the Content Labels, and would you tag the document to represent the physical presentation of content; or would you structure the document another way? Does doing one way or the other break any accessibility rules (for WCAG 2x or PDF/UA-1) you can think of?
>
> I look forward to hearing your opinion!
>
> Thanks,
> Jon Metz
>
> (Thoughts on this list are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the views of Delta Dental of California or its affiliates)
>