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Re: Title Attribute (was Re: IMG with a caption?)

for

From: Webmaster
Date: Mar 11, 2005 10:58AM

JF, thank you for your informative reply.

So I can not use tool tips if I build a BUI (browser user interface)
application. It is the news for me.

I notice now that there are no "tool tips" in Google Gmail, but there
are tool tips in Yahoo webmail interface.

In general my opinion is that the browsers are to support some universal
basic standards. Even TITLE attribute IE and Firefox display
differently. Worse than that the length of the displayed text is different.

In an ideal world the Safari, IE, Firefox, Opera people seat together
once in a while and agree on some basic standard features. It would
prevent appearance of such code just to figure out what browser user has:

if (document.all){
....
}else if (window.sidebar){
....
}else if( window.opera && window.print ) {
....
}

In the real world, however, I have the impression that the producers of
current browsers more think of market cornering than about users and
web-developers.

I do not think that, if there is, for example, the standard way to
display TITLE or a clear function to indicate what browser user has,
say, whatbroswer();, that it would hinder innovation.

We will see how it goes further this summer when IE7 comes out.

brgds A.

foliot wrote:

>>
>
> Sorry for the delay in responding, but this should not go as is..
>
> There are a few issues here, which should be clarified.
>
> First, using the Title attribute exclusively to produce a "tool tip" is both
> a misuse of the Title attribute, and a dangerous way of thinking, as it
> leaves me with the impression that it is being done to convey information
> that would not be present any other way - and that's even "wronger".
>
> The W3C states:
>
> "This attribute offers advisory information about the element for which it
> is set.
>
> Values of the title attribute may be rendered by user agents in a variety of
> ways. For instance, visual browsers frequently [but are not obligated to...
> - JF] display the title as a "tool tip" (a short message that appears when
> the pointing device pauses over an object). Audio user agents may speak the
> title information in a similar context. For example, setting the attribute
> on a link allows user agents (visual and non-visual) to tell users about the
> nature of the linked resource."
> (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#adef-title)
>
> Meaning that while it can be a good idea to add the Title attribute, we
> shouldn't "rely" on it to do "anything", except provide advisory information
> to the user agent (leaving the "method" of providing that advise to the user
> agent...). Also, relying on "the pointing device" exclusively (see above)
> goes against universal accessibility guidelines, which suggest we should be
> building device independent content (right?).
>
> Second item is "how" screen readers handle the Title attribute. This is
> really dependant on how the end user has configured their screen reader; and
> from my experience most daily screen reader users *do* tweak their tool to
> their personal preferences - be it speed of delivery (voice), verbosity
> settings, grammar settings, etc. For example (depending on which screen
> reader being used), in the verbosity settings, users can choose to have
> *just* the ALT attribute read, *just* the Title attribute read (when
> present), or both/neither. In the grammar settings, they can choose to have
> all, some or none of certain grammatical elements read, for example the
> square brackets - [] - can be announced or ignored; it depends on the user.
>
> Finally, I am troubled by the line, "...but at least the text appears on
> both IE and Firefox." List members should be reminded that there *are* more
> than 2 browsers on the market today, and developing web content for specific
> browser behaviour is a slippery slope and should be strongly discouraged.
>
> Cheers!
>
> JF
> --
> John Foliot <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
> Web Accessibility Testing and Services
> http://www.wats.ca 1.866.932.4878 (North America)


> webmaster29 wrote:
>
>>Thanks Joelle! Great article. As for the ALT, it also shows the short
>>text for the sighted readers when the pointer is over an image. I know
>>it works on IE, but on Firefox ALT does not show anything.
>>
>>So I add TITLE. For example <img src="someimage.png" ALT="some image
>>short description" TITLE="some image short description"> Then the
>>description appears both on IE and Firefox. I do not know if
>>it is right
>>or wrong way to do it (any idea?), but at least the text
>>appears on both
>>IE and Firefox.
>>
>>brgds A.
>
>
>