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Thread: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Mark
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 12:30PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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This is an autoresponder.
I am on vacation until 13th October.
If you require an urgent response please contact Martin McKay by
email ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) or phone (011 44 2894428105).
Yours sincerely,
Mark McCusker
CEO
Texthelp Systems Ltd
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 12:40PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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I apologize for my "soapbox."
One of the serious issues with this approach is that when I get a list of
links, they look like this:
MS Word File
PDF file
MS Word file
PDF file
MS Word file
PDF file
I can't tell which document is which from this type of linking. I literally
have to read entire pages of information and navigate through text and links
to find the one document...in this case the one form I need. It simply takes
too much time and I usually send a post asking someone to send me what I
want...it takes less time than trying to figure it out.
In the cases where the link is simply:
Word
PDF
Word
PDF
I have concerns about the ability of people with motor disabilities being
able to target the small link.
For me not including context is the same as having:
Click
more
Here
Click here
I know it is redundant but including the name of the document in a link to a
specific file format really helps in ensuring I open or download the right
document...and don't waste time
Cheers, Karen
From: Keith Parks
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 12:50PM
Subject: Best way to set up links to documents
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Hi folks.
I looking for recommendations/best practices for handling a list of
links to downloadable forms. Currently I have a page of links to Word
files, set up like this...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file)
Application for Services (MS Word file)
...where the name of the document is the hyperlinked text. The client
wants to add PDF version of the documents linked up.
One way I've seen would be something like...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file, PDF file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file, PDF file)
Application for Services (MS Word file, PDF file)
where the words "MS Word file" and "PDF file" were the links to the
documents. But then you have both non-descriptive link text plus
identical words on the page that link to different things. A real no-
no, yes?
What seems theoretically the most "correct" way would be...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file)
Disability Verification Form (PDF file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file)
Disability Questionnaire (PDF file)
Application for Services (MS Word file)
Application for Services (PDF file)
... where the entire text is the link. But some of the forms have
fairly long names, and the repetition of the names ends up confusing
to my eye, especially when they wrap.
Authorization for Release of Information from Student Disability
Services [MS Word file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Student Disability
Services [PDF file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Outside Agency [MS Word
file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Outside Agency [PDF file]
Has anyone tackled this sort of thing from a different angle that I'm
not thinking of?
TIA,
Keith
******************************
Keith Parks
Graphic Designer/Web Designer
Student Affairs Communications Services
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-7444
(619) 594-1046
mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/communications
http://kparks.deviantart.com/gallery
----------------------------------------------------------
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, served with a side of
slaw.
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Good question, Keith. This comes up all the time here, so I would also like feedback. I wonder about these options:
1. As you first described, but adding the form name to the "title" attribute:
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file)
Application for Services (MS Word file)
Does having unique title attributes overcome the "same wording, different target" issue?
2. Creating a data table, which I can only approximate here, and simply use icons representing each file format as links. Approximation:
Form Name in MS Word in PDF [<--- column headers]
[row headers in this column]
Disability Verification Form [Word icon] [PDF icon]
Disability Questionnaire [Word icon] [PDF icon]
Application for Services [Word icon] [PDF icon]
If the alt text for each image is the form name plus the format, then people using JAWS would know what each is regardless of whether they were in Tables mode. Also, people using screen magnifiers could tell what each is even if the headings aren't in their field of view because alt text should display on mouseover.
Thoughts? Preferences?
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> Keith Parks < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 10/3/2008 1:22 PM >>>
Hi folks.
I looking for recommendations/best practices for handling a list of
links to downloadable forms. Currently I have a page of links to Word
files, set up like this...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file)
Application for Services (MS Word file)
...where the name of the document is the hyperlinked text. The client
wants to add PDF version of the documents linked up.
One way I've seen would be something like...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file, PDF file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file, PDF file)
Application for Services (MS Word file, PDF file)
where the words "MS Word file" and "PDF file" were the links to the
documents. But then you have both non-descriptive link text plus
identical words on the page that link to different things. A real no-
no, yes?
What seems theoretically the most "correct" way would be...
Disability Verification Form (MS Word file)
Disability Verification Form (PDF file)
Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file)
Disability Questionnaire (PDF file)
Application for Services (MS Word file)
Application for Services (PDF file)
... where the entire text is the link. But some of the forms have
fairly long names, and the repetition of the names ends up confusing
to my eye, especially when they wrap.
Authorization for Release of Information from Student Disability
Services [MS Word file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Student Disability
Services [PDF file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Outside Agency [MS Word
file]
Authorization for Release of Information from Outside Agency [PDF file]
Has anyone tackled this sort of thing from a different angle that I'm
not thinking of?
TIA,
Keith
******************************
Keith Parks
Graphic Designer/Web Designer
Student Affairs Communications Services
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-7444
(619) 594-1046
mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/communications
http://kparks.deviantart.com/gallery
----------------------------------------------------------
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, served with a side of
slaw.
From: Keith Parks
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 4:10PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Cliff Tyllick wrote:
> Good question, Keith. This comes up all the time here, so I would
> also like feedback. I wonder about these options:
>
> 1. As you first described, but adding the form name to the "title"
> attribute:
> [snip...]
> Does having unique title attributes overcome the "same wording,
> different target" issue?
From what I recall of previous Title discussions, to paraphrase, they
"aren't considered a reliable way to communicate essential
information", something like that. Which I assume means there are a
lot of common situations/configurations where assistive technology
does not communicate the title info.
> 2. Creating a data table, which I can only approximate here, and
> simply use icons representing each file format as links.
> Approximation:
>
> Form Name in MS Word in
> PDF [<--- column headers]
> [row headers in this column]
> Disability Verification Form [Word icon] [PDF icon]
> Disability Questionnaire [Word icon] [PDF icon]
> Application for Services [Word icon] [PDF icon]
>
> If the alt text for each image is the form name plus the format,
> then people using JAWS would know what each is regardless of whether
> they were in Tables mode. Also, people using screen magnifiers could
> tell what each is even if the headings aren't in their field of view
> because alt text should display on mouseover.
I like this better, but I don't see that it would really need to be
set up in a table format. By using icons with full-description ALT
text as the links, that alone should clarify the link issue. Though
I'm not sure if the average user would intuitively think to click on
the icon to download the file. Maybe a slightly more elaborate graphic
that said "download [Word icon]", with ALT text as you describe?
Though I *also* had been hoping to use CSS to automate the link's file
format icon, the way I've seen some sites doing lately. But that only
works with background properties, which can't have an ALT value. So
maybe regular inline image icons/graphics are still the way to go.
Thanks,
Keith
******************************
Keith Parks
Graphic Designer/Web Designer
Student Affairs Communications Services
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-7444
(619) 594-1046
mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/communications
http://kparks.deviantart.com/gallery
----------------------------------------------------------
World Peace through Cascading Style Sheets.
From: Randy Pope
Date: Fri, Oct 03 2008 6:30PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Hi Keith,
Another approach is the use the listing format: For example:
<p>The following forms and information are available in the following
formats:</p>
<ul>
<li>Disability Verification Form:<ul>
<li>MS Word</li>
<li>PDF</li>
</ul></li></ul>
<ul>
<li> Disability Questionnaire:<ul>
<li>MS Word</li>
<li>PDF</li>
</ul></li></ul>
<ul>
<li> Application for Services:<ul>
<li>MS Word</li>
<li>PDF</li>
</ul></li></ul>
where MS Word and PDF are the links. One can use CSS to control the look of
the page without affect the screen readers.
Still another way is to use the <form> tag with the drop down menu. But that
might be a pain for the regular vision users.
Most of my screen readers don't see or hear the title attributes. I'm not
sure why.
Hope this helps,
Randy Pope
AADB
From: Jens Meiert
Date: Sat, Oct 04 2008 6:10AM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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> I looking for recommendations/best practices for handling a list of
> links to downloadable forms. Currently I have a page of links to Word
> files, set up like this...
>
> ...where the name of the document is the hyperlinked text. The client
> wants to add PDF version of the documents linked up.
>
> Has anyone tackled this sort of thing from a different angle that I'm
> not thinking of?
Well, do you really need to provide these files in two formats? Going
for one format, and PDF doesn't sound that bad, looks like the most
elegant solution.
--
Jens Meiert
http://meiert.com/en/
From: John E. Brandt
Date: Sat, Oct 04 2008 10:10AM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Shouldn't the links be semantically correct to assist AT users with
information about the link? I think having links that all say the same thing
"MS Word file... MS Word file... MS Word file..." is confusing to the AT
user.
The items below have hyperlinks in the parts that are [bracketed]
Training Forms
File 1: AT Training Presenter Form (cover sheet) [Word Version - File 1]
[PDF File 1 - Print Only Version]
File 2: AT Training Participant Evaluation Form [Word Version - File 2] [PDF
File 2 - Print Only Version]
~j
John E. Brandt
Augusta, Maine USA
www.jebswebs.com
From: mike.osborne
Date: Sat, Oct 04 2008 4:40PM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Doesn't this approach now give the AT user "Word Version - File 1 ... PDF
File 1 - Print Only Version ... Word Version - File 2 ... PDF File 2 -
Print Only Version ..." which still doesn't provide context?
Here's my approach:
Near top of the page explicitly state that ALL documents are available for
download in both Word and PDF formats. (This way we can split into two
lists and allay users fears that they need to check both lists to ensure
they can get any available document.)
Hide a skip link from visual browsers but still available to screen readers.
<H1>Documents for Download</H1>
<P><STRONG>All</STRONG> documents are available for download in <A
HREF="#word">Word format</A> or <A HREF="#PDF">PDF format</A>.</P>
<A NAME="word"></A>
<H2>Documents in Word format</H2>
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumenta.doc">Report Document A (Word 2003
125kB)</A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentb.doc">Report Document B (Word 2003
260kB)</A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentc.doc">Report Document C (Word 2003
1.2MB)</A></LI>
.... as many items as you need ....
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentz.doc">Report Document Z (Word 2003
1.8MB)</A></LI>
</UL>
<span style="display:none;"><A HREF="#endofpdf">Skip list of PDF
documents</A>
<A NAME="PDF"></A>
<H2>Documents in PDF format</H2>
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumenta.pdf">Report Document A (PDF 8.0
165kB)</A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentb.pdf">Report Document B (PDF 8.0
420kB)</A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentc.pdf">Report Document C (PDF 8.0
2.1MB)</A></LI>
.... as many items as you need ....
<LI><A HREF="reportdocumentz.pdf">Report Document Z (PDF 8.0
2.7MB)</A></LI>
</UL>
<A NAME="endofpdf"></A>
This makes each document link retain full context but hopefully minimises
having to listen to links for a format you're not interested in.
Cheers
Mike
AccEase Ltd
www.accease.com
> Shouldn't the links be semantically correct to assist AT users with
> information about the link? I think having links that all say the same
> thing
> "MS Word file... MS Word file... MS Word file..." is confusing to the AT
> user.
>
> The items below have hyperlinks in the parts that are [bracketed]
>
> Training Forms
> File 1: AT Training Presenter Form (cover sheet) [Word Version - File 1]
> [PDF File 1 - Print Only Version]
>
> File 2: AT Training Participant Evaluation Form [Word Version - File 2]
> [PDF
> File 2 - Print Only Version]
>
>
> ~j
>
> John E. Brandt
> Augusta, Maine USA
> www.jebswebs.com
>
>
>
>
From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Date: Sun, Oct 05 2008 3:40AM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Keith Parks wrote:
> One way I've seen would be something like...
>
> Disability Verification Form (MS Word file, PDF file)
>
> Disability Questionnaire (MS Word file, PDF file)
>
> Application for Services (MS Word file, PDF file)
<li>Disability Verification Form (<a
href="disability-verification-form.doc" type="application/msword"><span
class="extra-context">Disability Verification Form in </span>Microsoft
Word format</a>,<span class="extra-context"> or </span><a
href="disability-verification-form.pdf" type="application/pdf"><span
class="extra-context">Disability Verification Form in </span> Adobe<abbr
title="Portable Document Format">PDF</abbr> format</a>)</li>
span.extra-context {
position: absolute;
left: -9999em;
}
would achieve that visual presentation in browsers applying your CSS and
allow forms to be easily found in a list of links.
The aural presentation would be verbose if you simply read through the
list, but if you pressed a key to move from list item to list item it
would not be so.
Compare:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20080430/C7.html
There are plenty of alternatives to doing this however. For example:
1. Have a list of available forms where each link takes you to a page
offering a choice of formats for that form.
2. Have a page listing forms in (say) Word format, with a single link to
the same list in PDF format.
I'd probably prefer (2).
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
From: Moore, Michael
Date: Mon, Oct 06 2008 7:30AM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Keith and Cliff
We use icons with alt text to display links to all of the forms in our
forms catalog. This is still cumbersome though. The full catalog
displays over 400 forms which means 1200 total links in a links list
(Word, PDF, and Instructions for each form). We have smaller lists by
agency division as well, but the lists are still very long.
We also have a search feature to aid in discovering the form. We have
not received any negative feedback from users about the need to add the
word download to the icon link. It seems intuitive enough for the users
since the pages are part of a forms catalog.
The title attribute is not a reliable way to convey the information.
Even when configured to read the title screen readers (JAWS versions) do
not always read the title on links, form fields, or images.
I like some of the other proposed methods such as creating separate
lists with only one format available per list.
Mike Moore
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Mon, Oct 06 2008 11:40AM
Subject: Re: Best way to set up links to documents
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Thanks, Mike! Most of our forms are available through a search function (probably completely inaccessible, but we're working on a replacement), and I'm working on adding pages that list all forms for a specific program (usually five or 10; sometimes up to several dozen). I'll see if I can get our developers to adopt the two-list model.
We also have a lot of pages that tell how to do something and link to one, two, or several forms needed to get that "something" done. Are there any good solutions for links that will occur within the narrative of the page and must point to more than one format?
(Why more than one format? Even when electronic submission is possible, we are required to get a paper copy. Ideally, all our forms would be in html with a print CSS option, but that's a long way off. Until something changes, our customers are all over the map with respect to the format they prefer and their reasons for that preference. We do our best to help them comply with the rules.)
Cliff Tyllick
>>> "Moore, Michael" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 10/6/2008 8:27 AM >>>
Keith and Cliff
We use icons with alt text to display links to all of the forms in our
forms catalog. This is still cumbersome though. The full catalog
displays over 400 forms which means 1200 total links in a links list
(Word, PDF, and Instructions for each form). We have smaller lists by
agency division as well, but the lists are still very long.
We also have a search feature to aid in discovering the form. We have
not received any negative feedback from users about the need to add the
word download to the icon link. It seems intuitive enough for the users
since the pages are part of a forms catalog.
The title attribute is not a reliable way to convey the information.
Even when configured to read the title screen readers (JAWS versions) do
not always read the title on links, form fields, or images.
I like some of the other proposed methods such as creating separate
lists with only one format available per list.
Mike Moore