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Thread: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Jun 04 2013 12:24PM
Subject: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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Hello,
In the examples below, does the order of nesting make any difference? It is redundant (burdensome to an AT user) to use both html5 structural elements and ARIA attributes?
<div role="contentinfo">
<footer>
<p>footer stuff in here</p>
</footer>
</div>
<footer>
<div role="contentinfo">
<p>footer stuff in here</p>
</div>
</footer>
Angela French
Internet Specialist
State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.checkoutacollege.com/
http://www.sbctc.edu
From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Jun 04 2013 12:44PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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Just use <footer role="contentinfo"> and remove the extraneous <div>.
Because the native role and the ARIA role are identical on the same
element, this removes any redundancy.
Related - http://tink.co.uk/2013/04/screen-readers-aria-html5-too-much-information/
Jared
From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Jun 04 2013 1:00PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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Would it suffice then to just use the ARIA role and skip the html5 structural elements? Are there any "cons" for doing so?
>
>Just use <footer role="contentinfo"> and remove the extraneous <div>.
>Because the native role and the ARIA role are identical on the same element,
>this removes any redundancy.
>
>Related - http://tink.co.uk/2013/04/screen-readers-aria-html5-too-much-
>information/
>
>Jared
>>>to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Jun 04 2013 1:05PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Would it suffice then to just use the ARIA role and skip the html5 structural elements? Are there any "cons" for doing so?
Probably not, at least right now. If other systems were to utilize the
HTML5 structural element, such as a browser providing keyboard
navigation to them (if only!), then these would not be available if
you only use the ARIA attribute. There are advantages to using both,
so if you're really doing HTML5, then I'd suggest using both... for
now. As soon as assistive technology support improves for the native
HTML5 elements, we can eventually drop the ARIA attributes - yet
another argument for using both now.
Jared
From: Jim Allan
Date: Wed, Jun 05 2013 12:15PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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Has anyone filed a bug against the browsers for keyboard navigation to
these structural element? Most folks with disabilities are not using AT
that can modify how the user interacts with the browser/webpage (like
screen readers). This has huge implications for people who just use the
browser from the keyboard with no other AT.
Jim
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Would it suffice then to just use the ARIA role and skip the html5
> structural elements? Are there any "cons" for doing so?
>
> Probably not, at least right now. If other systems were to utilize the
> HTML5 structural element, such as a browser providing keyboard
> navigation to them (if only!), then these would not be available if
> you only use the ARIA attribute. There are advantages to using both,
> so if you're really doing HTML5, then I'd suggest using both... for
> now. As soon as assistive technology support improves for the native
> HTML5 elements, we can eventually drop the ARIA attributes - yet
> another argument for using both now.
>
> Jared
> > > >
--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Wed, Jun 05 2013 12:19PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
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Hi Jim,
there is an open bug here for Firefox:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?idg0928
--
Regards
SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
On 5 June 2013 19:15, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Has anyone filed a bug against the browsers for keyboard navigation to
> these structural element? Most folks with disabilities are not using AT
> that can modify how the user interacts with the browser/webpage (like
> screen readers). This has huge implications for people who just use the
> browser from the keyboard with no other AT.
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Would it suffice then to just use the ARIA role and skip the html5
> > structural elements? Are there any "cons" for doing so?
> >
> > Probably not, at least right now. If other systems were to utilize the
> > HTML5 structural element, such as a browser providing keyboard
> > navigation to them (if only!), then these would not be available if
> > you only use the ARIA attribute. There are advantages to using both,
> > so if you're really doing HTML5, then I'd suggest using both... for
> > now. As soon as assistive technology support improves for the native
> > HTML5 elements, we can eventually drop the ARIA attributes - yet
> > another argument for using both now.
> >
> > Jared
> > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > >
From: Jim Allan
Date: Wed, Jun 05 2013 12:44PM
Subject: Re: order of nesting when using ARIA and html 5
← Previous message | No next message
excellent! Thanks for your recent comments to the bug.
I will check on the other browsers.
Jim
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> there is an open bug here for Firefox:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?idg0928
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
>
>
> On 5 June 2013 19:15, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Has anyone filed a bug against the browsers for keyboard navigation to
> > these structural element? Most folks with disabilities are not using AT
> > that can modify how the user interacts with the browser/webpage (like
> > screen readers). This has huge implications for people who just use the
> > browser from the keyboard with no other AT.
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Angela French < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> > > > Would it suffice then to just use the ARIA role and skip the html5
> > > structural elements? Are there any "cons" for doing so?
> > >
> > > Probably not, at least right now. If other systems were to utilize the
> > > HTML5 structural element, such as a browser providing keyboard
> > > navigation to them (if only!), then these would not be available if
> > > you only use the ARIA attribute. There are advantages to using both,
> > > so if you're really doing HTML5, then I'd suggest using both... for
> > > now. As soon as assistive technology support improves for the native
> > > HTML5 elements, we can eventually drop the ARIA attributes - yet
> > > another argument for using both now.
> > >
> > > Jared
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
> > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964