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Thread: Auditing Without Sight
Number of posts in this thread: 14 (In chronological order)
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:17AM
Subject: Auditing Without Sight
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Here is one for you guys and gals. I have not been able to find a way around this, but to use a sighted person to eye-ball those success criteria for me on a page.
1.4.3 - Contrast (Minimum) Level AA
Besides the WAVE toolbar, how can a blind person identify this SC?
1.4.4 - Resize Text
How can I tell that the text can be resized to 200% without a loss of content or function?
1.4.5 - Images of Text
That's a royal one.
2.4.7 - Focus Visible
How can you tell if the focus around links and buttons is that of the browser default?
Currently, I have not had any success but to ask my teammate to eye-ball those SCs for the WCAG evaluation. It would be nice to do them myself. Anyone figured out a way on how to evaluate those visual ones?
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Web Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:29AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Jamous,
For number 3, if you are using NVDA, use SHIFT+NVDA+O. If it says off screen, it's invisible to the sighted user. If it really is invisible or hidden through CSS, you won't see it. You need to be very careful, though, because as you read with NVDA, you have to keep spot checking to see if text is off screen. Sometimes, you get a clue that text is off screen if you tab to a control and only hear part of what you read with arrow keys, or if a sighted person says that a link is shorter than you think it is. With colors, there is no easy way to do minimum contrast checking because no screen reader color values are reliable. The only thing you may be able to do is inspect elements in your browser, get it to show you the CSS for the elements, and do the math.
NVDA is coming out with a revised color scheme, but that doesn't guarantee how it renders in the document object model, so it's unreliable to count on.
If I come up with something better, I will definitely talk about it.
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:34AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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That's another one Jim. How do you do the math for the ratio?
Foreground Color divided by background color?
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:41AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hey guys
Good question JP.
Writing an article on this for www.bats.fyi is high on my to-do list
(too bad the list is so long).
Short answer, no 100% techniques, but there are a few tools and tricks
we can use to give us an idea.
Even with a pair of eyes, if we have a specified set of questions we
can ask them, it helps.
Another pair-of-eyes one is 2.1.1
How do you know that an element reveals additional info, even entire
menus, on mouse over without mousing over it.
Screen readers have some mous simulation mechanisms, but they are not reliable.
You can usually figure this out from looking at the html and Javscript
source, but it takes you about 50 times as long as it takes a pair of
eyes and a mouse widling hand to explore what, if any, info is
revealed when you hover over an element.
Cheers
-B
On 8/9/16, Jamous, JP < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> That's another one Jim. How do you do the math for the ratio?
>
> Foreground Color divided by background color?
>
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:44AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hi Jamous,
I'd have to google for how to do ratios. I hate math. One other thing you could try is to use JAWS instead. Get the color. If necessary, copy it to the virtual buffer. Open the JAWS colors.ini file. See if the color name is there. If it is, get the hex values. You have to get the values for each: foreground and background. Plug that into a conversion routine that converts hex to decimal. Then do the math. One way to speed up the process would be to read the CSS and get the colors for all the styles and run them all through a conversion routine. You could also find a color chart and anything you feel is close to the borderline you could check. Sounds like a very painful process, but it might work.
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Marc Solomon
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:39AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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aXe from Deque does a nice job of finding color contrast violations for text and links. If you can find a way to access the Chrome or Firefox extension with your screen reader, this might help for SC 1.4.3.
Best,
Marc
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:51AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hi Birkir,
I just took a quick look at the Firebug article. I have one possible work around if you use NVDA for the right click problem. Try using NVDA+SHIFT+M first, then NVDA+RIGHTBRACKET to right click. That might do the job.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 11:53AM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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I actually looked into the math for the ratio (on a very superficial level). It's really not that simple because the ratio takes into consideration a variety of things. I don't remember the specifics, but it reminded me of how your ears respond to different frequencies at different volumes. In the end, I found it much easier to use the following site to check my contrast ratio:
http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/#%23000-on-%23F00
-Dan
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 12:30PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hey all.
aXe is very accessible with a screen reader. I wrote a guide on it for
FireEyes II (which is the paid version), but can easily be updated for
the Firefox aXe plug-in (it is the same, minus a couple of features).
It is also very good at finding automated color contrast issues.
To launch the aXe Firefox plugin(once installed): go to tools ->
developer tools -> accessibility, and press enter.
Re calculating the ratio, once you have the color values you simply
plug them into a tool like the WebAIM color contrast checker:
http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/
The tricky thing is when background images are used or if the
background color varies, it requires fairly in-depth assessment using
a pair of eyes, and taking the values at a couple of diffrrent points
on the element.
With color contrast there are often complications that make 100%
reliable automated testing, and testing, without sight not 100%
accurate.
We should still do it to the extent possible, we can catch a lot of
real issues, but for an official report I think we still need a pair
of eyes to verify, or at least spot check.
Jim, could you try to download Firebug and follow my instructions with
NVDA to see if the bringing NVDA up from the right click menu works
there.
If your workaround works, it shall instantly be added too the article.
Cheers
-Birkir
On 8/9/16, Swift, Daniel P. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I actually looked into the math for the ratio (on a very superficial level).
> It's really not that simple because the ratio takes into consideration a
> variety of things. I don't remember the specifics, but it reminded me of
> how your ears respond to different frequencies at different volumes. In the
> end, I found it much easier to use the following site to check my contrast
> ratio:
>
> http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/#%23000-on-%23F00
>
> -Dan
>
>
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 12:49PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hi Birkir,
Sure thing. I also have a bookmark to the documentation that has similar content. Here it is. https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Accessibility#Accessing_the_Firebug_Window I'll look at both articles and see what I can figure out. Also, I think I signed up for the BATS group, so if you need me to help write articles, I can do that.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Lucy Greco
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 1:11PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Jim yes please do consitter writing artacles for us i manage the list but
do not remember your name on it i can add you now with your permition lucy
Lucia Greco
Web Accessibility Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Birkir,
> Sure thing. I also have a bookmark to the documentation that has similar
> content. Here it is. https://getfirebug.com/wiki/index.php/Accessibility#
> Accessing_the_Firebug_Window I'll look at both articles and see what I
> can figure out. Also, I think I signed up for the BATS group, so if you
> need me to help write articles, I can do that.
>
> Jim
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme,
> Accessibility Consultant,
> Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
> Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
> 412-787-8567,
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-
> accessible-technology-solutions
> E+R=O
>
>
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 1:41PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Hi Lucy,
I just remembered that I didn't join because I couldn't figure out how to get this address to work on Google Groups.
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Tue, Aug 09 2016 2:05PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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Thank you folks. I just got back from a couple of meetings and read your wonderful resources.
I greatly appreciate the feedbacks.
From: _mallory
Date: Thu, Aug 11 2016 1:41PM
Subject: Re: Auditing Without Sight
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For foreground text colour + possible background image, a tool that
takes a screenshot of the page and runs a check would be a step in
the right direction.
U of N Carolina has one that does the first part of this (although it
is much too slow, at least when I use it, to test pages with any
speed). However after it checks contrast, it presents an image of the
page with new pixels over the original to highlight failure areas,
meaning it's meant for sighties to use. However it ought to be possible
to do something else with the information it gets and pipe it into
another type of output?
A second problem with background images is when the sites are responsive,
especially if they are brokenly responsive-- where a background image may
move in relation to the text (or other way around), meaning at one
screensize things pass but on another contrast is lost on some text.
A good tool for all would need to check many resolutions automatically.
cheers,
_mallory
On Tue, Aug 09, 2016 at 07:41:22PM +0000, Jim Homme wrote:
> Hi Lucy,
> I just remembered that I didn't join because I couldn't figure out how to get this address to work on Google Groups.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme,
> Accessibility Consultant,
> Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
> Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
> 412-787-8567,
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> E+R=O
>
>