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Thread: Generate PDF including MathML
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: David Monnehay
Date: Mon, Aug 29 2016 2:43AM
Subject: Generate PDF including MathML
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Hi all,
We are use to make PDF accessible (from InDesign, Word or PDF sources),
but we are currently facing a new situation we've never had to deal with
so far, we were ask to make a few math lessons accessible. MathML seems
to be the best (if not the only) solution to make sure the math formulas
are properly rendered by screen readers. But right now, we're having
difficulties finding a way to generate a PDF including MathML. InDesign
doesn't seem to provide this kind of option (even using MathMagic, which
generated an image of the formula), the only option we have find so far
is to redo all the documents with LaTeX (they are currently InDesign and
PDF files) and use a script to export LaTeX into MathML in the PDF
export process (this part is still a little blurry for me right, I might
not be using the right vocabulary, but I did find some PDF including
proper MathML generated using that method).
I was wondering if any of you knew any other solutions.
Thanks in advanced for any input you might have on that matter.
Best regards,
--
David Monnehay
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Tél. 01 45 26 77 89
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Atalan
Accessibilité numérique et sensibilisation au handicap
www.atalan.fr
Atalan est coordinateur des projets AcceDe Web et AcceDe PDF
www.accede.info
From: Karen Sorensen
Date: Mon, Aug 29 2016 10:53AM
Subject: Re: Generate PDF including MathML
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Hi David,
I don't believe there is anyway to make MathML accessible in a PDF.
You can have MathML in a web page, or MathType in a MS Office document can
be read if the screen reader has a full version of MathType on their local
drive, but I don't know of anyway to make MathML accessible in a PDF. Check
out the MathFinder by Diagram Center for options.
At my institution, we ask instructors who want to use PDFs to keep their
source documents (usually Word with MathType) and if we have an
accommodation, we convert their source documents into HTML or Braille or
simply let the student use the Word doc.
Best of luck!
Karen
Karen M. Sorensen
Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses
www.pcc.edu/access
Portland Community College
971-722-4720
Twitter: @ksorensun
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Mon, Aug 29 2016 11:18AM
Subject: Re: Generate PDF including MathML
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Just my own thoughts. No previous experience.
1. MathML is a part of HTML5. That is why it does not work with PDF files. PDF files add their tags into a XML file.
2. There might be a possibility if an Adobe add-on can be installed that would render MathML to screen readers. This might be a hard one to find, but if there is one for browsers, you'd think there should be one for Adobe as well.
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: steve.noble
Date: Mon, Aug 29 2016 11:39AM
Subject: Re: Generate PDF including MathML
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Well...technically it is possible to embed MathML in <formula> tags, and NVDA will read it if you have MathPlayer installed on your PC. But at the moment that is the only AT combination that has built in the necessary support to read such files. An example of such a file can be found at http://msf.mathmlcloud.org/file_formats/8 (look for the link to download the pdf file).
Another issue is automating the process, instead of having to cut and paste all the MathML snippets into your pdf. I had read that Callas Software had been working on this, but I don't know if they ever got it out. I suspect that functionality was supposed to be part of pdfChip, but their documentation doesn't specifically mention the part about automating the <formula> tag output, though it may very well do so. I don't know at this point.
--Steve Noble
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble
From: WebAIM-Forum [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Karen Sorensen [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 12:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Generate PDF including MathML
Hi David,
I don't believe there is anyway to make MathML accessible in a PDF.
You can have MathML in a web page, or MathType in a MS Office document can
be read if the screen reader has a full version of MathType on their local
drive, but I don't know of anyway to make MathML accessible in a PDF. Check
out the MathFinder by Diagram Center for options.
At my institution, we ask instructors who want to use PDFs to keep their
source documents (usually Word with MathType) and if we have an
accommodation, we convert their source documents into HTML or Braille or
simply let the student use the Word doc.
Best of luck!
Karen
Karen M. Sorensen
Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses
www.pcc.edu/access
Portland Community College
971-722-4720
Twitter: @ksorensun
From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Mon, Aug 29 2016 2:07PM
Subject: Re: Generate PDF including MathML
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Hi Steve,
such functionality indeed is still on the list for both companies that I work for:
- callas software (www.callassoftware.com):
callas pdfChip is a tool to convert HTML to PDF; it is planned that HTML can be converted to tagged PDF (in PDF/UA-1 quality) but due to a number of challenges (and conflicting priorities: it is easier for us to generate quite nice revenue from other pdfChip features) the functionality (both tagged PDF to begin with, and then MathML support) is still not finished, and I have no date by when I expect it to be finished
- axaio software (www.axaio.com):
It is planned to extend axaio MadeToTag - a plug-in for Adobe InDesign that aims to make creation of high quality tagged PDF / PDF/UA-1 easier and more efficient - such that it allows a user to create an equation in InDesign from MathML, and then to use the MathML to add according structure to the exported tagged PDF. There are still a number of challenges to overcome, and again, I do not have a date by when I expect the functionality to be available.
As has been said, probably the only AT that does something useful with MathML (whether in HTML or PDF) seems to be NVDA (it is crazy that a free tool is again ahead of commercial offerings…), especially given that Design Science's plug-n fir Internet Explorer can't be run in recent versions of Internet Explorer. So it it's a bit of a sad situation anywhere one looks….
We do have a prototypical tool that demonstrates how to present MathML in tagged PDFs in a useful manner, but we still haven't gotten around to making it publicly available. It could inspire other developers how to go about providing access to MathML in whatever program or whatever AT. If there is sufficient interest we might make it publicly available by the end of the year (free of charge, requires Acrobat Pro, runs on Mac only).
The closest to efficient production of math in tagged PDF is a set of LaTeX macros/extension from Ross Moore, math professor at Macquarie University in Australia. I believe he intend to publish these macros/extensions one day but still has to add final touches such that people other than himself can use it in production. You'd have to use TeX / LaTeX in order to be able to benefit from this tooling.
Olaf
Managing Director at callas software and at axaio software
> On 29.08.2016, at 19:39, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
> Another issue is automating the process, instead of having to cut and paste all the MathML snippets into your pdf. I had read that Callas Software had been working on this, but I don't know if they ever got it out. I suspect that functionality was supposed to be part of pdfChip, but their documentation doesn't specifically mention the part about automating the <formula> tag output, though it may very well do so. I don't know at this point.