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From: Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO
Date: Tue, Feb 21 2017 3:42PM
Subject: Presenting a table without any data
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Imagine you have a dynamic web page that retrieves a list of receipts, but none matched the query. Or, imagine one that is a data entry page on the top, and at the bottom is table that displays them as they are added, but you start out with none.

I've advised my developers that displaying only the single header row is inappropriate; that there are several ways this could be disorienting or cryptic, such as a user wondering if it is proper behavior or simply something that was done in such a way as to be inaccessible to them. Or, wondering what their path forward should be. There are more.

So, I told them when there are no records to display to add a single row that makes that says something like "No receipts have been added" that spans an entire table row. It goes away once there are rows of actual data to display.

So my question is: Am I just being overwrought? They're argument is that this is unnecessary "dummy text" that will confuse their users.

My other question is: If I'm not out of line, then how could I justify it to them? They've escalated it to senior management who are now second guessing my guidance. They want to see something official that says they are supposed to do it this way.

Please help...
Steven Meacham, ICT Accessibility Program Manager
+1 (816) 926-1942<tel:+18169261942>
FSA Section 508 Program<https://wiki.tools.fsa.usda.gov/x/AgCoAw>





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From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Tue, Feb 21 2017 4:17PM
Subject: Re: Presenting a table without any data
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Steve,

I agree with you providing a header row could be confusing, though I don't
think many users would jump into the table if they know they need to search
first. Why not met your devs half-way, and throw "no receipts have been
added" into a caption tag, which gets removed or updated as the table
populates

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Imagine you have a dynamic web page that retrieves a list of receipts, but
> none matched the query. Or, imagine one that is a data entry page on the
> top, and at the bottom is table that displays them as they are added, but
> you start out with none.
>
> I've advised my developers that displaying only the single header row is
> inappropriate; that there are several ways this could be disorienting or
> cryptic, such as a user wondering if it is proper behavior or simply
> something that was done in such a way as to be inaccessible to them. Or,
> wondering what their path forward should be. There are more.
>
> So, I told them when there are no records to display to add a single row
> that makes that says something like "No receipts have been added" that
> spans an entire table row. It goes away once there are rows of actual data
> to display.
>
> So my question is: Am I just being overwrought? They're argument is that
> this is unnecessary "dummy text" that will confuse their users.
>
> My other question is: If I'm not out of line, then how could I justify it
> to them? They've escalated it to senior management who are now second
> guessing my guidance. They want to see something official that says they
> are supposed to do it this way.
>
> Please help...
> Steven Meacham, ICT Accessibility Program Manager
> +1 (816) 926-1942<tel:+18169261942>
> FSA Section 508 Program<https://wiki.tools.fsa.usda.gov/x/AgCoAw>
>
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely
> for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message
> or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law
> and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you
> have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> the email immediately.
> > > > >

From: Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO
Date: Tue, Feb 21 2017 4:42PM
Subject: Re: Presenting a table without any data
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Thank you, Ryan and everyone for your help.

In my haste, I may have oversimplified. Here's the exact scenario: A master record is created on one page. The user then navigates to this "add receipts" page, which has a form to fill out on top with an "add" button, and a table at the bottom that accumulates the receipts and presumably allows the user to go back and edit or remove them one by one if necessary. Presumably they can come back to this page at a later time, after some receipts have already been added, and see the table already populated.

Does that clarify? I've attached a really low-res screen print of what I just described. That, BTW, is what I was given to analyze.

- Steve

P.S. Oh...they won't use "caption" or "h1"-"h6" elements, either, because they're ugly and clutter the page. They prefer to wrap entire portions of the page in "fieldset" elements. At a glance, there are even more things worse with the page, but for reasons you can probably imagine, they are off limits to me for now. I apologize for my blatant frustration.

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Feb 21 2017 7:50PM
Subject: Re: Presenting a table without any data
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You could do two things here as a compromise:
* Use the table cell with text "no records to display" that spans a
whole row, bt make it visually hidden. This is a best practice that
benefits screen eader users, who are the users most likely to be
confused by not finding the table they expect.
* Add aria-controls="the id of the table" (assuming a unique ID can be
added to that table), to the "add" button at the top of the page.
* You can add aria-label="receipts" to the <table>, it is not visible,
so developers should be able to implement it without losing to much
sleep.

<button aria-controls="receiptsTable">Add</button>
... content
<table id="receiptsTable" aria-label="my receipts">
<tr>header cells</tr>
<tr><td class="visuallyHidden" colspan="number of columns in table>no
receipts to display.</td></tr>
</table>


for a receipt. Screen readers who support it will indicate the
programatic relationship between the button and the table, subtle but
it can be very helpful.


On 2/21/17, Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thank you, Ryan and everyone for your help.
>
> In my haste, I may have oversimplified. Here's the exact scenario: A
> master record is created on one page. The user then navigates to this "add
> receipts" page, which has a form to fill out on top with an "add" button,
> and a table at the bottom that accumulates the receipts and presumably
> allows the user to go back and edit or remove them one by one if necessary.
> Presumably they can come back to this page at a later time, after some
> receipts have already been added, and see the table already populated.
>
> Does that clarify? I've attached a really low-res screen print of what I
> just described. That, BTW, is what I was given to analyze.
>
> - Steve
>
> P.S. Oh...they won't use "caption" or "h1"-"h6" elements, either, because
> they're ugly and clutter the page. They prefer to wrap entire portions of
> the page in "fieldset" elements. At a glance, there are even more things
> worse with the page, but for reasons you can probably imagine, they are off
> limits to me for now. I apologize for my blatant frustration.
>
>