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Thread: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: John Britsios
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2003 4:17PM
Subject: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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Dear all!
Not every freelancer designer, developer, can afford buying JAWS, to test the web sites they build.
Therefore, see how this problem may be solved!
More info here:
http://www.dreamlettes.net/petition/
Thanks for your your time and help!
Kind regards,
John
P.S. If you have a minute, please visit the "Webnauts Net Accessibility and Usability Initiative" forum at: http://www.webnauts.net/phpBB2/index.php
---
John S. Britsios,
Web Accessibility and Usability Consultant
Webnauts Net
Web Accessibility & Usability Consultants
Wilbrandstr. 77
D-33604 Bielefeld
Germany
UMS: +49-(0)700-WEBNAUTS
HOME: http://www.webnauts.net (redesign is in progress)
ACADEMY: http://www.webnauts-akademie.de (German)
SHOP: http://shop.webnauts.net (Germa
From: Kynn Bartlett
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2003 4:32PM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 03:14 PM, John Britsios wrote:
On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 03:13 PM, John Britsios wrote:
> Dear all!
> Not every freelancer designer, developer, can afford buying JAWS, to
> test the web sites they build.
Not every blind person can afford buying JAWS to use their computers,
either.
> Therefore, see how this problem may be solved!
This petition is no "solution."
> More info here:
> http://www.dreamlettes.net/petition/
Here's my take on it:
http://www.maccessibility.com/archive/000832.php
--Kynn
--
Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > http://kynn.com
Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain http://idyllmtn.com
Author, CSS in 24 Hours http://cssin24hours.com
Shock & Awe Blog http://shock-awe.info
Inland Anti-Empire Blog http://inlandantiempire.org
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From: John Britsios
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2003 4:40PM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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But it would solve a lot of problems for blind people who have JAWS!
Or not?
-- John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kynn Bartlett" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "John Britsios" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Cc: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
From: Mary Martinson
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2003 7:27PM
Subject: RE: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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I've tested web sites with JAWS, and as a casual user I get some false
positives and false negatives. This leads you down the wrong path and wastes
time and money. As *one piece* of the testing process I have contracted with
users who are blind and are experienced with JAWS. They do the testing at
their own site and send me a report via email. This does not take the place
of formal usability testing, but is useful to spot errors early, when it is
easier and cheaper to fix problems. These contractors charge $25 an hour,
so it's certainly more affordable than buying JAWS. If anyone wants contact
information on these contractors, let me know.
Mary
From: Kynn Bartlett
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2003 7:59PM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 03:37 PM, John Britsios wrote:
> But it would solve a lot of problems for blind people who have JAWS!
> Or not?
Likely not. Sites are _not_ inaccessible today because Web developers
are lacking the JAWS software.
Sites are inaccessible primarily for the following reasons, in order:
1. Web developers aren't aware of Web accessibility.
2. Web developers don't care about Web accessibility.
3. Web developers don't know how to create accessible Web sites.
The problem is not one that can be reduced to tools -- there are plenty
of free or low-cost tools (such as Home Page Reader, which at $150
should be affordable to all except the most unsuccessful of Web page
developers) which may be used to improve the accessibility of a Web
page.
But the bigger problem is this: There are few motives for Freedom
Scientific to give in to the demands of the Web developers who sign
the petition.
The designers want free product -- okay. What does Freedom Scientific
get in return? They will be getting no new sales from those designers,
who are simply going to use the free versions. They won't be selling
any tutorial audio CDs or support contracts to these people, that's
for sure.
Will it increase the sales of JAWS, thus benefiting Freedom Scientific?
Answer: LIKELY NOT.
Why? Well, JAWS is already a leader in the field anyway, and blind
people typically don't choose a screen reader based on what Web
designers tell them. What's more, those Web designers fail to realize
that JAWS IS A MULTI-USE APPLICATION THAT IS NOT ONLY DESIGNED FOR
WEB USE.
The purpose of JAWS is _not_ to simply view Web pages, but to enable
access to the entirety of the operating system and its
applications. Email programs, office suites, games, and other
apps are run using JAWS for Windows, all without even getting near
the Web. I have a blind friend who refuses to use the Web, but who
uses JAWS regularly to operate his computer.
So, at best, the increased accessibility of Web pages is only a minor
factor when it comes to one's choice of screen reader. But even
beyond that there's a larger issue: IF WEB DESIGNERS BEGIN TARGETING
JAWS IN SPECIFIC, THIS WILL HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON WEB
ACCESSIBILITY.
In other words, the people who use WindowEyes or other screen readers
or assistive technologies may be screwed, as these "elite designers"
will only be crafting sites which work in JAWS -- at least, JAWS as
they (imperfectly) understand how to use it -- which as we've seen
with browser-specific code is NOT a step towards interoperability.
The goal of the W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines document
is to promote practices which ensure accessibility by a broad range
of users. A focus specifically on JAWS will not help to achieve
that goal.
And if such a focus does NOT benefit users of JAWS in particular --
if it does NOT grant a market advantage, which may be destructive
to accessibility concepts, to Freedom Scientific -- then there's no
point in Freedom Scientific investing the money to do it, is there?
Again, this is a lot of work DEMANDED by designers for a chimeric
justification. There's no benefit to the field of Web accessibility
in granting their demands, there's no benefit to Freedom Scientific
in granting their demands, and there's really no benefit to the Web
developer in these demands either.
Accessibility is not advanced by handing out free copies of JAWS.
There are plenty of ways to make Web sites more accessible, and you
certainly don't need a copy of JAWS to do it. Anyone who says
otherwise is simply not in touch with the reality of the situation.
--Kynn
--
Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > http://kynn.com
Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain http://idyllmtn.com
Author, CSS in 24 Hours http://cssin24hours.com
Shock & Awe Blog http://shock-awe.info
Inland Anti-Empire Blog http://inlandantiempire.org
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From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Sat, Aug 30 2003 11:11AM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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You may not need JAWS. Freedom Scientific makes a product that provides
screen reading functionality, but doesn't act as a full-fledged screen
reader for the Windows OS. Connect Outloud
<http://www.hj.com/fs_products/software_connect.asp>; is $250 and worth
investigating. The current version is based on JAWS 4.02, so it won't read
Flash content, but does read PDF files.
You should also try HomePageReader, which I've seen as cheap as $129.
JAWS is expensive, but may seem more expensive than it is if you only need
it for a small portion of what it is useful for.
AWK
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:14:48 +0200, John Britsios < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Dear all!
>
> Not every freelancer designer, developer, can afford buying JAWS, to test
> the web sites they build.
>
> Therefore, see how this problem may be solved!
>
> More info here:
>
> http://www.dreamlettes.net/petition/
>
> Thanks for your your time and help!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> John
>
> P.S. If you have a minute, please visit the "Webnauts Net Accessibility
> and Usability Initiative" forum at:
> http://www.webnauts.net/phpBB2/index.php
>
> ---
> John S. Britsios,
> Web Accessibility and Usability Consultant
>
>
> Webnauts Net
> Web Accessibility & Usability Consultants
> Wilbrandstr. 77
> D-33604 Bielefeld
> Germany
> UMS: +49-(0)700-WEBNAUTS
> HOME: http://www.webnauts.net (redesign is in progress)
> ACADEMY: http://www.webnauts-akademie.de (German)
> SHOP: http://shop.webnauts.net (German)
> VALIDATOR: http://www.webnauts.net/cse_validator.html
>
> "For people without disabilities, technology makes things convenient.
> For people with disabilities, it makes things possible."
>
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From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Sep 02 2003 2:31PM
Subject: Re: Web Designers Alternative for JAWS
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I'm not sure why developers would want a stripped down version of JAWS
when the fully functional version is freely available from their Web
site - http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_downloads/jaws_form.asp.
Yes, it only works for 40 minutes at a time, then you must
reboot your computer to enable it again, but this is usually more than
enough time to do accessibility testing.
I'm with Andrew in saying the IBM HomePage Reader, despite its
limitations, is a much more suitable screen reader for developers
doing accessibility testing. At $117 and an easy learning curve (as
opposed to JAWS, which has a learning curve that looks more like a
cliff), I'd recommend it any day over JAWS.
Besides, this may all be a moot point as the petition site seems to
have disappeared.
Jared Smith
WebAIM (Web Accessibility In Mind)
Center for Persons with Disabilities
Utah State University
***************
On Friday, August 29, 2003 you sent:
JB> Dear all!
JB> Not every freelancer designer, developer, can afford buying JAWS, to test the web sites they build.
JB> Therefore, see how this problem may be solved!
JB> More info here:
JB> http://www.dreamlettes.net/petition/
JB> Thanks for your your time and help!
JB> Kind regards,
JB> John
JB> P.S. If you have a minute, please visit the "Webnauts Net Accessibility and Usability Initiative" forum at: http://www.webnauts.net/phpBB2/index.php
JB> ---
JB> John S. Britsios,
JB> Web Accessibility and Usability Consultant
JB> Webnauts Net
JB> Web Accessibility & Usability Consultants
JB> Wilbrandstr. 77
JB> D-33604 Bielefeld
JB> Germany
JB> UMS: +49-(0)700-WEBNAUTS
JB> HOME: http://www.webnauts.net (redesign is in progress)
JB> ACADEMY: http://www.webnauts-akademie.de (German)
JB> SHOP: http://shop.webnauts.net (German)
JB> VALIDATOR: http://www.webnauts.net/cse_validator.html
JB> "For people without disabilities, technology makes things convenient.
JB> For people with disabilities, it makes things possible."
***************
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