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Thread: accessible tables in Word?
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Carol Foster
Date: Mon, Nov 03 2003 8:35AM
Subject: accessible tables in Word?
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Hello,
I have been looking at options for accessible documents - PDF's, Word,
etc. The documents I am working with at the moment are fairly simple,
but have some tables and lists. In Word 2000, they read fairly well
with JAWS, but I cannot figure out how to identify headers in the
tables, or if that is possible. I did find the "Heading Rows Repeat"
option for tables, but that does not seem to be picked up by JAWS, or am
I missing something?
Also, I am wondering if anyone knows if the free Word reader would work
any differently with JAWS than the full Word 2000.
I am testing with JAWS 4.51 with Word 2000 on a pc with Windows 2000.
(I know and support the idea that HTML is the best way to go, but this
is not always in my control!)
Thanks,
Carol
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Mon, Nov 03 2003 2:47PM
Subject: Re: accessible tables in Word?
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Carol,
The Accessible Web Publishing Wizard for Microsoft Office [1] doesn't
support Word right now. But in a few months we will have basic Word
support, including simple tables. It will automatically generate the
proper table labeling for you and generate valid HTML.
I know this does not help now, but in a few months it would be an option
for you.
Jon
[1] http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/software/office
At 10:32 AM 11/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have been looking at options for accessible documents - PDF's, Word,
>etc. The documents I am working with at the moment are fairly simple,
>but have some tables and lists. In Word 2000, they read fairly well
>with JAWS, but I cannot figure out how to identify headers in the
>tables, or if that is possible. I did find the "Heading Rows Repeat"
>option for tables, but that does not seem to be picked up by JAWS, or am
>I missing something?
>
>Also, I am wondering if anyone knows if the free Word reader would work
>any differently with JAWS than the full Word 2000.
>
>I am testing with JAWS 4.51 with Word 2000 on a pc with Windows 2000.
>
>(I know and support the idea that HTML is the best way to go, but this
>is not always in my control!)
>
>Thanks,
>Carol
>
>
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820
Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
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From: Michael D. Roush
Date: Mon, Nov 03 2003 3:01PM
Subject: Re: accessible tables in Word?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Foster" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:32 AM
Subject: accessible tables in Word?
> I have been looking at options for accessible documents - PDF's, Word,
> etc. The documents I am working with at the moment are fairly simple,
> but have some tables and lists. In Word 2000, they read fairly well
> with JAWS, but I cannot figure out how to identify headers in the
> tables, or if that is possible. I did find the "Heading Rows Repeat"
> option for tables, but that does not seem to be picked up by JAWS, or am
> I missing something?
The "Heading Rows Repeat" feature makes Word encase a row or rows in
<thead>...</thead> tags when the document is saved as a web page. I haven't
found anything yet that makes Word use a <th> instead of a <td>. It may be
there, but it probably has a lot to do with finding the right style to apply
to the table row - if it's even there.
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From: sean keegan
Date: Tue, Nov 04 2003 10:30AM
Subject: RE: accessible tables in Word?
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Carol,
Are you trying to identify the headers so JAWS will recognize the
headers and read them?
Using JAWS, a user can issue commands that will identify the first row
cell or the first column cell in a table. Do you have to explicitly
identify these elements? No, as JAWS interprets these to be the row and
column headers. What happens when the first row and first column do not
actually contain the row and column heading information? Well, then it
becomes a bit more difficult to navigate and comprehend.
If you want to identify explicitly the row/column header information,
then you are left with HTML (and as you mentioned, that may not be an
option).
Take care,
sean
Sean Keegan
Web Accessibility Instructor
High Tech Center Training Unit for the
California Community Colleges
Cupertino, CA
408.996.6044
From: Carol Foster
Date: Tue, Nov 04 2003 12:37PM
Subject: Re: accessible tables in Word?
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Thanks to all who replied. It sounds to me like data tables in Word cannot
be made to comply with Section 508's requirement to identify row and column
headers. This is very helpful to know.
Carol
sean keegan wrote:
> Carol,
>
> Are you trying to identify the headers so JAWS will recognize the
> headers and read them?
>
> Using JAWS, a user can issue commands that will identify the first row
> cell or the first column cell in a table. Do you have to explicitly
> identify these elements? No, as JAWS interprets these to be the row and
> column headers. What happens when the first row and first column do not
> actually contain the row and column heading information? Well, then it
> becomes a bit more difficult to navigate and comprehend.
>
> If you want to identify explicitly the row/column header information,
> then you are left with HTML (and as you mentioned, that may not be an
> option).
>
> Take care,
> sean
>
> Sean Keegan
> Web Accessibility Instructor
> High Tech Center Training Unit for the
> California Community Colleges
> Cupertino, CA
> 408.996.6044
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From: Carol Foster
Date: Mon, Nov 10 2003 11:44AM
Subject: Re: accessible tables in Word?
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Apologies if I was not clear: it is my understanding that 1194.22 applies to
documents posted on the Web, such as PDF or Word documents, if there is no
alternative format. If a Word document is intended to be accessible (for
instance if it is the only version of some essential content), then I would
interpret 1194.22 as applying to that document in that case. But I'm not a
lawyer! Please correct me if I am wrong!
Certainly there is a lot of discussion about making PDF's accessible, so this
seems to me to be the same sort of thing.
In my group, we are currently considering what is the most efficient way to make
some specific documents accessible. These documents are given to us as Word
docs, and we have been converting them to PDF, and sometimes to HTML. But then
we started to wonder if the Word documents themselves could be made accessible
(to the standard of 508, which is what we are currently aiming toward). It
looks to me as if some of the simpler Word docs can be, but not the ones with
data tables. As I have mentioned, I realize this is not the most accessible
solution, and I would prefer to see an accessible HTML version available if
resources and politics permit!
Carol
"Larry G. Hull" wrote:
> Carol,
>
> I've been following the discussion with interest.
>
> However, "Section 508's requirement to identify row and column
> headers." is from 1194.22 Web-based intranet and internet information
> and applications, specifically rule (g).
>
> While I personally accept that documents posted on the Web should
> either be accessible (HTML or ASCII) or have an accessible version
> posted, I hadn't previously heard or to my knowledge read that
> documents, here specifically Word documents with tables, are required
> to be Section 508 compliant, i.e., follow any specific set of rules.
>
> Perhaps I've missed something. Can you or someone else on the list
> point me to where this requirement can be found in Section 508?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>
> At 2:33 PM -0500 11/4/03, Carol Foster wrote:
> >Thanks to all who replied. It sounds to me like data tables in Word cannot
> >be made to comply with Section 508's requirement to identify row and column
> >headers. This is very helpful to know.
> >
> >Carol
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From: Wayne Dick
Date: Mon, Nov 10 2003 12:50PM
Subject: Re: accessible tables in Word?
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If a person has low vision, Word, or any comercial word processor, is very
accessible. They enlarge, the word wrap - eliminating horizantal scrolling.
Word processors allow precision line spacing and total contorl over color.
They preserve the original format when enlarged. Tables are a problem, but
nothing really translates tables. Tables are a visual phenomenon. At best
we can provide a listing of the data in a sequential format. The real
impact of the two dimensional table is lost.
Remember, not every visually impaired person needs reading out loud. For
many JAWS is a bad solution. Some need enlargement with word wrapping, easy
control over line spacing and color, and preservation of most of the visual
prompts provided by the unmodified document.
Unfortunately tables are always problematic. Objects that depend on their
two dimensional structure as part of their meaning do not translate easily.
That is why math in general is difficult.
Wayne
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