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Number of posts in this thread: 13 (In chronological order)

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Tue, Nov 05 2019 10:32AM
Subject: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
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Is there a way to save an Excel Table as a Tagged PDF with <TH> column and row cells? I have a simple table formatted as a Table in Excel, with Header Row and First Column checked. But when I save as PDF, all the cells are <TD>. Am I doing something wrong or must I manually tag every excel table?


Joseph

From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Nov 05 2019 10:53AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
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On Mac (and I found this on PC last month), this is now common...I do all
the right things in Word (2019/365) and Acrobat then just shows all THs,
annoying as anything, which is why I am now testing out other PDF programs.
I have also had the all TDs as well. I haven't tested it on Excel for a
month, but I am sure it is the same...

Cheers

Lisa

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:32 PM Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Is there a way to save an Excel Table as a Tagged PDF with <TH> column and
> row cells? I have a simple table formatted as a Table in Excel, with Header
> Row and First Column checked. But when I save as PDF, all the cells are
> <TD>. Am I doing something wrong or must I manually tag every excel table?
>
>
> Joseph
>
> > > > >

From: Jonathan Whiting
Date: Thu, Nov 07 2019 10:05AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

Joseph,

Are you by any chance on a Mac, and using the "Acrobat" tab in Excel? If
so, try creating the PDF within Acrobat (File > Created > PDF from File).
Does that fix it?

See https://webaim.org/techniques/acrobat/converting for more info on
converting files in Office to PDFs.

Jon



On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 10:52 AM L Snider < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Mac (and I found this on PC last month), this is now common...I do all
> the right things in Word (2019/365) and Acrobat then just shows all THs,
> annoying as anything, which is why I am now testing out other PDF programs.
> I have also had the all TDs as well. I haven't tested it on Excel for a
> month, but I am sure it is the same...
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 1:32 PM Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to save an Excel Table as a Tagged PDF with <TH> column
> and
> > row cells? I have a simple table formatted as a Table in Excel, with
> Header
> > Row and First Column checked. But when I save as PDF, all the cells are
> > <TD>. Am I doing something wrong or must I manually tag every excel
> table?
> >
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 7:49AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Jon,

I am on a Windows PC, and have tried saving the Excel to PDF in numerous ways. Each way gives me only <TD> cells with no <TH> cells.


Joseph

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 8:22AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
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You might try re-applying a default "Table Style" to your table? Or cut
and paste just your table data into a fresh table, and then select your
data and apply a fresh Table Style to it, and indicate in the pop-up
modal that your table has a heading row?

When I tested this just now to a fresh, bare new Excel with 3 rows and 3
columns, and used the Microsoft Office 2016 built-in Export -> Create
PDF/XPS Document function, I get a properly tagged PDF with a Table
tag,  THead and TBody tags, and with proper TH's nested in a single TR
in the THead.

Phil.

On 2019-11-08 09:49, Joseph Sherman wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
> I am on a Windows PC, and have tried saving the Excel to PDF in numerous ways. Each way gives me only <TD> cells with no <TH> cells.
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 8:28AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

And this actually surprises me: if I indicate "First Column" as well as
"Header Row" in the "Table Style Options", I also get properly formatted
TH tags for each cell in the first column. I didn't realize Excel could
even do that until now.

Phil.

On 2019-11-08 10:22, Philip Kiff wrote:
> You might try re-applying a default "Table Style" to your table? Or
> cut and paste just your table data into a fresh table, and then select
> your data and apply a fresh Table Style to it, and indicate in the
> pop-up modal that your table has a heading row?
>
> When I tested this just now to a fresh, bare new Excel with 3 rows and
> 3 columns, and used the Microsoft Office 2016 built-in Export ->
> Create PDF/XPS Document function, I get a properly tagged PDF with a
> Table tag,  THead and TBody tags, and with proper TH's nested in a
> single TR in the THead.
>
> Phil.
>
> On 2019-11-08 09:49, Joseph Sherman wrote:
>> Hi Jon,
>>
>> I am on a Windows PC, and have tried saving the Excel to PDF in
>> numerous ways. Each way gives me only <TD> cells with no <TH> cells.
>>
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>>

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 9:24AM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

I cannot replicate your success. I created a simple 3x3 table, applied table style with header row and export to PDF/XPS. I get no THead or TBody tags, just all TR and TD cells.


Joseph

From: Laurie Kamrowski
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 1:08PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
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Hi there!

I don't know why, but I have always had to remediate every table I have
ever generated in any office software to ensure that it is done correctly.
I am just relieved that I don't have to redraw/redeclare every cell. Then
again, I am a control freak and a perfectionist so I actually enjoy
ensuring that the cells are declared correctly and the table is stitched
together.

I have not tried to use Office 365 (the version my school gives to
students) to attempt this, though.

Laurie Kamrowski
She/Her/Hers
Accessibility Specialist
Mid Michigan College

From: Colin Osterhout
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 1:15PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
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My simple test with the Office 365 version on Mac (version 16.30) with
saving a file to PDF (both Excel and PDF attached) and examining in Adobe
Acrobat DC (build: 19.21.20049.354971) doesn't seem to show that the table
was marked up properly. Table rules which failed as indicated from the
Acrobat accessibility checker:

- Rows
- TH and TD
- Headers
- Regularity
- Summary

But of course I could just be doing it wrong. I'm pretty green in the
document accessibility space.

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM Laurie Kamrowski < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> I don't know why, but I have always had to remediate every table I have
> ever generated in any office software to ensure that it is done correctly.
> I am just relieved that I don't have to redraw/redeclare every cell. Then
> again, I am a control freak and a perfectionist so I actually enjoy
> ensuring that the cells are declared correctly and the table is stitched
> together.
>
> I have not tried to use Office 365 (the version my school gives to
> students) to attempt this, though.
>
> Laurie Kamrowski
> She/Her/Hers
> Accessibility Specialist
> Mid Michigan College
> > > > >


--
Colin Osterhout
Website Coordinator, University of Alaska Southeast
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
907-796-6576

For fastest response for your web needs, please email
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .

<http://uas.alaska.edu/>;
[image: Like UAS on Facebook] <https://facebook.com/UASALASKA>
[image: Follow along with UAS on Instagram]
<https://www.instagram.com/uasoutheast/>
[image: Follow UAS on Twitter] <https://twitter.com/uasoutheast>

From: L Snider
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 3:53PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

Oh and for me on the Mac, every way is a problem...I am on Insiders Fast
Build, and it got worse about 4 months ago...I don't know where the
mainstream version is with Mac, but I am hoping it gets better (although it
happened on PC fast insider too)...

What version of Acrobat DC is working? Mine is the latest.

Cheers

Lisa

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:24 AM Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I cannot replicate your success. I created a simple 3x3 table, applied
> table style with header row and export to PDF/XPS. I get no THead or TBody
> tags, just all TR and TD cells.
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
>

From: L Snider
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 3:54PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

Laurie,

What version of Office are you using? Mac or PC?

Cheers

Lisa

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 2:15 PM Colin Osterhout < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> My simple test with the Office 365 version on Mac (version 16.30) with
> saving a file to PDF (both Excel and PDF attached) and examining in Adobe
> Acrobat DC (build: 19.21.20049.354971) doesn't seem to show that the table
> was marked up properly. Table rules which failed as indicated from the
> Acrobat accessibility checker:
>
> - Rows
> - TH and TD
> - Headers
> - Regularity
> - Summary
>
> But of course I could just be doing it wrong. I'm pretty green in the
> document accessibility space.
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:09 AM Laurie Kamrowski < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi there!
> >
> > I don't know why, but I have always had to remediate every table I have
> > ever generated in any office software to ensure that it is done
> correctly.
> > I am just relieved that I don't have to redraw/redeclare every cell. Then
> > again, I am a control freak and a perfectionist so I actually enjoy
> > ensuring that the cells are declared correctly and the table is stitched
> > together.
> >
> > I have not tried to use Office 365 (the version my school gives to
> > students) to attempt this, though.
> >
> > Laurie Kamrowski
> > She/Her/Hers
> > Accessibility Specialist
> > Mid Michigan College
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Colin Osterhout
> Website Coordinator, University of Alaska Southeast
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 907-796-6576
>
> For fastest response for your web needs, please email
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .
>
> <http://uas.alaska.edu/>;
> [image: Like UAS on Facebook] <https://facebook.com/UASALASKA>
> [image: Follow along with UAS on Instagram]
> <https://www.instagram.com/uasoutheast/>
> [image: Follow UAS on Twitter] <https://twitter.com/uasoutheast>
> > > > >

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 4:09PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | Next message →

Tagging got worse on the Windows side about then as well, especially from
PowerPoint using either the Adobe Acrobat Pro DC Ribbon or the Microsoft
tool. At this point in time, I save the PowerPoint as an outline, format it
in Word and everyone gets that. Saves me hours of trying to weed my way
through the mash up of Tags.

Cheers, Karen

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, Nov 08 2019 5:00PM
Subject: Re: Save Excel Table as Tagged PDF?
← Previous message | No next message

I think what may be happening in the case of Excel is that Microsoft is
updating some versions fairly regularly while leaving other versions to
stagnate. And those more frequent changes sometimes break various
elements in the Acrobat PDF conversion engine, again depending on which
version you happen to be running.

I'm using "Version 1910" of Microsoft Excel for Office 365, and I'm on
the "Monthly" update channel, and I have machines running both 32-bit
and 64-bit versions, with the specific version numbers:
16.0.12130.202032 (32-bit)
16.0.12130.20272 (64-bit)

And I'm running the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Pro DC:
2019.021.20049

It may be that older versions of Microsoft Excel 2016, or versions that
are not on as frequent update channels, are still not producing TH's at
all.

According to Microsoft, there were changes to some PDF accessibility
functions in this channel just over a week ago, but it is hard to know
if these changes relate to differences I'm seeing in my PDF output:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdates/monthly-channel-2019

I seem to get a relatively clean PDF when I export using the Microsoft
converter (via Export ->  Create PDF/XPS Document). TH's are correct in
both column and row headers of a simple table with a single header row
and first column headers. It passes the built-in Adobe checker cleanly.
There are some PDF/UA errors: the table gridlines are marked as paths in
span tags instead of being artifacted. The header row and column do not
have their "scope" set, but at least they are TH's. All in all, it seems
to me like pretty good PDF output compared to what I remember from Excel
2013 a couple years ago.

When I save as PDF using my Acrobat Professional DC ribbon plugin, I
actually get a broken table.  The table tag is empty, and the rows are
instead nested under "<UnknownNodeType>" tags. I'm sure this is a bug in
Acrobat. It's clear those same tags are actually the THead and TBody
tags in the Word export. So Microsoft probably changed the underlying
XML for that, and Acrobat is no longer converting it correctly.

Phil.

--
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

On 2019-11-08 17:53, L Snider wrote:
> Oh and for me on the Mac, every way is a problem...I am on Insiders Fast
> Build, and it got worse about 4 months ago...I don't know where the
> mainstream version is with Mac, but I am hoping it gets better (although it
> happened on PC fast insider too)...
>
> What version of Acrobat DC is working? Mine is the latest.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:24 AM Joseph Sherman < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> I cannot replicate your success. I created a simple 3x3 table, applied
>> table style with header row and export to PDF/XPS. I get no THead or TBody
>> tags, just all TR and TD cells.
>>
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>>