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Thread: Section 508 (m)
Number of posts in this thread: 13 (In chronological order)
From: Yith
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 4:55AM
Subject: Section 508 (m)
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Hi,
I'm working on a web application that as part of its functionality, delivers
PDFs and Doc files (and other file types), from other systems, to users of
my application
I don't have the ability to modify the documents in any way and they may be
in any version of those formats.
According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers on
the page where I present those documents.
This is fine as I know what mime-type each document is so can present a link
to the appropriate reader.
However I can find no list of accessible readers for these types of
documents, so I don't know what links to present.
From what I understand Acrobat Reader 6 is suitable for reading PDF files,
but what about Word Docs, etc...
The list of mime-types I am looking for accessible readers for is:
application/vnd.ms-excel
application/vnd.ms-powerpoint
application/msword
application/pdf
Any other types of document will be the responsibility of our customers to
set up.
Can anyone suggest anything?
Yith
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From: Sandy Clark
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 6:43AM
Subject: RE: Section 508 (m)
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I'm no expert in terms of most screen readers, but I believe a screen reader
such as Jaws and Window-eyes) will read all of the Office applications
directly.
Adobe Acrobat 6.0 reader will also allow for forms to be read using a screen
reader.
From: Michael D. Roush
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 9:40AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Yith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:48 AM
Subject: Section 508 (m)
> According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers
on
> the page where I present those documents.
>
> The list of mime-types I am looking for accessible readers for is:
> application/vnd.ms-excel
> application/vnd.ms-powerpoint
> application/msword
> application/pdf
File viewers for each of the MS-Office formats are available at
http://office.microsoft.com if you type "Viewer" into the search block. You
can get the URL's from that for the appropriate formats and provide those on
your page. Note that even this won't help your PowerPoint presentation be
accessible unless you have entered alternative text for the images on your
end. I'm not sure how the viewer for PowerPoint is so much better than
saving the presentation file as a self-playing file.
The biggest drawback I see is that the Office viewers are only available for
Windows systems. This won't help your mac/*nix users (if you have any) at
all.
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 9:58AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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There is a tool automates much of the process of creating accessible HTML
versions of Office documents:
http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/software/office
Jon
At 11:27 AM 1/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Yith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:48 AM
>Subject: Section 508 (m)
>
>
> > According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers
>on
> > the page where I present those documents.
> >
> > The list of mime-types I am looking for accessible readers for is:
> > application/vnd.ms-excel
> > application/vnd.ms-powerpoint
> > application/msword
> > application/pdf
>
>File viewers for each of the MS-Office formats are available at
>http://office.microsoft.com if you type "Viewer" into the search block. You
>can get the URL's from that for the appropriate formats and provide those on
>your page. Note that even this won't help your PowerPoint presentation be
>accessible unless you have entered alternative text for the images on your
>end. I'm not sure how the viewer for PowerPoint is so much better than
>saving the presentation file as a self-playing file.
>
>The biggest drawback I see is that the Office viewers are only available for
>Windows systems. This won't help your mac/*nix users (if you have any) at
>all.
>
>
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>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820
Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
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From: Yith
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 10:47AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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> There is a tool automates much of the process of creating accessible HTML
> versions of Office documents:
>
> http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/software/office
Unfortunately don't actually create the documents ourselves... we just
deliver them.
Also our web site software is cross platform and runs on both Unix and
Windows.
Thanks for the help though... :-)
Hmm... I had this one down as a simple job... but I think its going to be
much more complex, depending on how much time is involved...
One idea then... since we don't actually create the documents and they are
supplied from elsewhere is it actually our responsibility to supply these
links?
Yith.
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From: Sandy Clark
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 10:50AM
Subject: RE: Section 508 (m)
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Are you hosting the documents? Or just creating links to them to other
servers? If you are hosting them, you are ultimately responsible for
compliance.
From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 11:08AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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If you have the original documents you can run them through the converter
and then you will have HTML versions. HTML and then will be accessible to
browsers on UNIX, Macs and PCs. No need for Microsoft plug-ins.
Jon
At 05:38 PM 1/21/2004 +0000, you wrote:
> > There is a tool automates much of the process of creating accessible HTML
> > versions of Office documents:
> >
> > http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/software/office
>
>Unfortunately don't actually create the documents ourselves... we just
>deliver them.
>
>Also our web site software is cross platform and runs on both Unix and
>Windows.
>
>Thanks for the help though... :-)
>
>Hmm... I had this one down as a simple job... but I think its going to be
>much more complex, depending on how much time is involved...
>
>One idea then... since we don't actually create the documents and they are
>supplied from elsewhere is it actually our responsibility to supply these
>links?
>
>Yith.
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820
Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
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From: Yith
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 11:17AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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> Are you hosting the documents? Or just creating links to them to other
> servers? If you are hosting them, you are ultimately responsible for
> compliance.
The documents are supplied by other systems into our own at the request of
individual users that then can access them through the web.
> If you have the original documents you can run them through the converter
> and then you will have HTML versions. HTML and then will be accessible to
> browsers on UNIX, Macs and PCs. No need for Microsoft plug-ins.
The problem is that our server software has to run on both unix and windows
systems and those converters only seem to come in windows flavours.
Yith
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 11:32AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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After you convert a document the output is static HTML, so you can put it
on either a UNIX, Windows or other web servers for access to the
public. The HTML is valid HTML 4.01. It is not a real-time on demand
conversion tool.
Jon
At 06:09 PM 1/21/2004 +0000, you wrote:
> > Are you hosting the documents? Or just creating links to them to other
> > servers? If you are hosting them, you are ultimately responsible for
> > compliance.
>
>The documents are supplied by other systems into our own at the request of
>individual users that then can access them through the web.
>
> > If you have the original documents you can run them through the converter
> > and then you will have HTML versions. HTML and then will be accessible to
> > browsers on UNIX, Macs and PCs. No need for Microsoft plug-ins.
>
>The problem is that our server software has to run on both unix and windows
>systems and those converters only seem to come in windows flavours.
>
>Yith
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820
Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
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From: Yith
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 12:09PM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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> After you convert a document the output is static HTML, so you can put it
> on either a UNIX, Windows or other web servers for access to the
> public. The HTML is valid HTML 4.01. It is not a real-time on demand
> conversion tool.
Unfortunately I need a real-time on demand conversion tool since the system
is completely automatic.
Thanks anyway.
Yith.
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From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2004 1:35PM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Yith wrote:
> I'm working on a web application that as part of its functionality, delivers
> PDFs and Doc files (and other file types), from other systems, to users of
> my application
Then the material is not accessible, by design. The best you can do, apart
from changing that situation itself, is to declare clear and loud what
the formats of the documents are. Not just in HTTP headers but also in
plain text near the links to them. All rest is most probably just noise.
If you're not accessible, at least say it honestly and precisely.
(Minimally, you could put "(PDF)" and "(MS Word)" after the link. Blind
people might prefer having the explanation _before_ the link, though.)
> According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers on
> the page where I present those documents.
Are you under an obligation to comply with Section 508? Then read in it
detail and draw the conclusions. If it says that it's OK to have material
in PDF and MS Word format only, if you just have a "click here to download
the kewl readers" link, then so be it. Good luck. But you won't find any
actually _accessible_ readers for those formats. I mean in real life, as
opposite to vendor brochures. So you might decide that it would be an
undue burden, since you would have to _write_ such software first.
If you are not legally obliged to comply with Section 508, ignore the rule
that requires links to "accessible readers". It's just comparable to
<noframes>Your stoopid browser is too old! Click HERE to download
the real Netscape 3 browser! And get a life too!</noframes>
(Actually, they're often more insulting, and more foolish.)
People who need and and can use GhostScript or OpenOffice will get them
and learn to use them, hopefully. There's little point in making each page
with links to PDF or Word documents to advertize such software, still
less any inferior products. People may need help with such software, but
they need real help, not some formally-required naked links all around.
--
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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From: Yith
Date: Thu, Jan 22 2004 3:30AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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> > I'm working on a web application that as part of its functionality,
delivers
> > PDFs and Doc files (and other file types), from other systems, to users
of
> > my application
>
> Then the material is not accessible, by design. The best you can do, apart
> from changing that situation itself, is to declare clear and loud what
> the formats of the documents are. Not just in HTTP headers but also in
> plain text near the links to them. All rest is most probably just noise.
> If you're not accessible, at least say it honestly and precisely.
>
> (Minimally, you could put "(PDF)" and "(MS Word)" after the link. Blind
> people might prefer having the explanation _before_ the link, though.)
We already do that... The link itself has the name of the document type. The
whole page is about that one document.
> > According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers
on
> > the page where I present those documents.
>
> Are you under an obligation to comply with Section 508? Then read in it
> detail and draw the conclusions. If it says that it's OK to have material
> in PDF and MS Word format only, if you just have a "click here to download
> the kewl readers" link, then so be it. Good luck. But you won't find any
> actually _accessible_ readers for those formats. I mean in real life, as
> opposite to vendor brochures. So you might decide that it would be an
> undue burden, since you would have to _write_ such software first.
>
> If you are not legally obliged to comply with Section 508, ignore the rule
> that requires links to "accessible readers". It's just comparable to
> <noframes>Your stoopid browser is too old! Click HERE to download
> the real Netscape 3 browser! And get a life too!</noframes>
> (Actually, they're often more insulting, and more foolish.)
>
> People who need and and can use GhostScript or OpenOffice will get them
> and learn to use them, hopefully. There's little point in making each page
> with links to PDF or Word documents to advertize such software, still
> less any inferior products. People may need help with such software, but
> they need real help, not some formally-required naked links all around.
Thanks... its not us that have to worry about 508, but some of our
customers.
What I'll do is add in the ability to add links to readers. I'll add in the
link to the PDF one myself but then if the customer wants to add in ones for
other document types then thats fine...
Thanks for all your help...
Yith
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From: Don Wonnell
Date: Mon, Feb 02 2004 10:30AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 (m)
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As another message said a screen reader like JAWS may help. JAWS is from American Scientific, which bought out Henter-Joyce several years ago. Can't get my bookmarks to come up, but www.americanscientific.com may be a valid website.
Yours,
Don Wonnell
Labor Mkt. Analyst, NW Ohio
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 01/21/04 06:48AM >>>
Hi,
I'm working on a web application that as part of its functionality, delivers
PDFs and Doc files (and other file types), from other systems, to users of
my application
I don't have the ability to modify the documents in any way and they may be
in any version of those formats.
According to Section 508 (m), I must supply links to accessibile readers on
the page where I present those documents.
This is fine as I know what mime-type each document is so can present a link
to the appropriate reader.
However I can find no list of accessible readers for these types of
documents, so I don't know what links to present.
From what I understand Acrobat Reader 6 is suitable for reading PDF files,
but what about Word Docs, etc...
The list of mime-types I am looking for accessible readers for is:
application/vnd.ms-excel
application/vnd.ms-powerpoint
application/msword
application/pdf
Any other types of document will be the responsibility of our customers to
set up.
Can anyone suggest anything?
Yith
----
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
----
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