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Thread: Screen Reader Question
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Mark Rew
Date: Thu, Dec 06 2001 3:07PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
No previous message | Next message →
I'm running Jaws 4.0 and I have found that I appear to be reading the ID
attribute referenced in the headers attribute if I have numpad off then hold
down the control and alt keys followed by a numpad key.
Mark
- ----- Original Message -----
From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:42 PM
Subject: Screen Reader Question
>
> Hi All!
>
> I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
> before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
> this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
> accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
> have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
> ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
> reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
>
> For example:
>
> <TABLE border="1"
> summary="This table charts the number of cups
> of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
> of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
> taken with sugar.">
> <CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
> <TR>
> <TH id="t1">Name</TH>
> <TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
> <TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
> <TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">10</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">No</TD>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">5</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
> </TABLE>
>
>
> Some screen readers would read the following table like:
> It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
> read:
> Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
> Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
>
> JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
> share would read it like:
> Name Cups Type Sugar
> T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
> J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
>
> JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
> individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
> read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
> read the id tags?
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Stacy Canaras
> Sr. User Interface Engineer
> Hyperion Solutions
> 900 Long Ridge Road
> Stamford, CT 06902
> (203) 703-3323
>
>
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
-
From: Stacy Canaras
Date: Thu, Dec 06 2001 3:14PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | Next message →
I have the same problem.
still looking for answer
Stacy_Canaras@hyperion
.com To: WebAIM forum
Sent by: WebAIM forum
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = cc: (bcc: Viral
Patel/IMT/EXIMBANK)
d.usu.edu> Subject: Screen Reader
Question
12/06/01 03:42 PM
Please respond to
WebAIM forum
Hi All!
I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
For example:
<TABLE border="1"
summary="This table charts the number of cups
of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
taken with sugar.">
<CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
<TR>
<TH id="t1">Name</TH>
<TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
<TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
<TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
<TR>
<TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
<TD headers="t2">10</TD>
<TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
<TD headers="t4">No</TD>
<TR>
<TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
<TD headers="t2">5</TD>
<TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
<TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
</TABLE>
Some screen readers would read the following table like:
It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
read:
Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
share would read it like:
Name Cups Type Sugar
T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
read the id tags?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Stacy Canaras
Sr. User Interface Engineer
Hyperion Solutions
900 Long Ridge Road
Stamford, CT 06902
(203) 703-3323
- ---
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
-
From: Sharon Daniels
Date: Thu, Dec 06 2001 3:20PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | Next message →
I haven't tried this but I thought that I read on the W3C site that using
the SCOPE attribute would work.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:42 PM
Subject: Screen Reader Question
>
> Hi All!
>
> I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
> before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
> this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
> accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
> have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
> ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
> reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
>
> For example:
>
> <TABLE border="1"
> summary="This table charts the number of cups
> of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
> of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
> taken with sugar.">
> <CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
> <TR>
> <TH id="t1">Name</TH>
> <TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
> <TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
> <TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">10</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">No</TD>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">5</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
> </TABLE>
>
>
> Some screen readers would read the following table like:
> It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
> read:
> Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
> Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
>
> JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
> share would read it like:
> Name Cups Type Sugar
> T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
> J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
>
> JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
> individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
> read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
> read the id tags?
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Stacy Canaras
> Sr. User Interface Engineer
> Hyperion Solutions
> 900 Long Ridge Road
> Stamford, CT 06902
> (203) 703-3323
>
>
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
-
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Dec 06 2001 3:25PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | Next message →
JAWS: while in table, ctrl+alt+arrow key will read scope/header/axis
information
HPR: while in table, press alt+t to enter table mode, then use arrow keys.
Window-Eyes: I think (need to double check) that ctrl+plus (or ctrl+numpad
plus) enters table mode, and Ins+arrows moves from cell to cell.
Andrew
On 12/6/01 3:42 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
wrote:
>
> Hi All!
>
> I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
> before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
> this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
> accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
> have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
> ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
> reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
>
> For example:
>
> <TABLE border="1"
> summary="This table charts the number of cups
> of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
> of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
> taken with sugar.">
> <CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
> <TR>
> <TH id="t1">Name</TH>
> <TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
> <TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
> <TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">10</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">No</TD>
> <TR>
> <TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
> <TD headers="t2">5</TD>
> <TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
> <TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
> </TABLE>
>
>
> Some screen readers would read the following table like:
> It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
> read:
> Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
> Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
>
> JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
> share would read it like:
> Name Cups Type Sugar
> T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
> J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
>
> JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
> individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
> read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
> read the id tags?
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Stacy Canaras
> Sr. User Interface Engineer
> Hyperion Solutions
> 900 Long Ridge Road
> Stamford, CT 06902
> (203) 703-3323
>
>
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
- --
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)
WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.
-
From: Mark Rew
Date: Fri, Dec 07 2001 5:51AM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | Next message →
The scope attribute is recommended by the Access Board, but as of version 3.7
of Jaws it is not recognized. Thus, for Jaws I can only get the id attribute
along with the headers attribute to work.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Daniels" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
> I haven't tried this but I thought that I read on the W3C site that using
> the SCOPE attribute would work.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:42 PM
> Subject: Screen Reader Question
>
>
> >
> > Hi All!
> >
> > I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
> > before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
> > this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
> > accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
> > have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
> > ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
> > reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > <TABLE border="1"
> > summary="This table charts the number of cups
> > of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
> > of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
> > taken with sugar.">
> > <CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
> > <TR>
> > <TH id="t1">Name</TH>
> > <TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
> > <TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
> > <TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
> > <TR>
> > <TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
> > <TD headers="t2">10</TD>
> > <TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
> > <TD headers="t4">No</TD>
> > <TR>
> > <TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
> > <TD headers="t2">5</TD>
> > <TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
> > <TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
> > </TABLE>
> >
> >
> > Some screen readers would read the following table like:
> > It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
> > read:
> > Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
> > Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
> >
> > JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
> > share would read it like:
> > Name Cups Type Sugar
> > T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
> > J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
> >
> > JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
> > individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
> > read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
> > read the id tags?
> >
> > Any information would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Stacy Canaras
> > Sr. User Interface Engineer
> > Hyperion Solutions
> > 900 Long Ridge Road
> > Stamford, CT 06902
> > (203) 703-3323
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
-
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Fri, Dec 07 2001 8:04AM
Subject: RE: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | Next message →
Here is a summary of table markup support that I posted on the 508 list. The
versions are all the current ones, HPR 3.02, Window-Eyes 4.11, JAWS 4.00.
Below is my current summary of the specialized
table markup support. Support means that by adding the indicated markup to
an otherwise not specially marked up table, you can get the assistive
technology to speak differently from its default behavior (which is item 1
below). For example, replace all of row two TD's with TH's in an otherwise
not specially marked up table and see if the AT now reads the second row
items as headings.
1. No special markup - row one and column one for headings: JFW,
Window-Eyes, HPR.
2. Scope attribute on either TH's or TD's - JFW and HPR.
3. Axis attribute on TH's or TD's - JFW.
4. Use TH for headings - HPR.
5. Headers attribute with id's specifying heading cells either TH or TD -
JFW and HPR.
Jim
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
-
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, Dec 07 2001 8:09AM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
← Previous message | No next message
There was a discussion on the WAI-IG list about this, and JAWS does support
scope. The problem is that JAWS always announces the column and row headers
even if scope is used differently. I have attached an example, not to
present as a good way to code a table, but to demonstrate that JAWS does pay
attention to scope.
Andrew
On 12/7/01 6:44 AM, Mark Rew ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:
> The scope attribute is recommended by the Access Board, but as of version
3.7
> of Jaws it is not recognized. Thus, for Jaws I can only get the id
attribute
> along with the headers attribute to work.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Daniels" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Screen Reader Question
>
>
>> I haven't tried this but I thought that I read on the W3C site that using
>> the SCOPE attribute would work.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:42 PM
>> Subject: Screen Reader Question
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All!
>>>
>>> I am new to this list, so I'm sure you have already answered this question
>>> before. However, I would be very grateful if someone would help me out on
>>> this one. I am in charge of making the web applications in my company
>>> accessible. Our products use a lot of data tables in its interface. I
>>> have read a lot on the topic and all the books suggest putting header and
>>> ID tags to index the individual cell so while it is being read, the screen
>>> reader will tell you which row and column it is in.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> <TABLE border="1"
>>> summary="This table charts the number of cups
>>> of coffee consumed by each senator, the type
>>> of coffee (decaf or regular), and whether
>>> taken with sugar.">
>>> <CAPTION>Cups of coffee consumed by each senator</CAPTION>
>>> <TR>
>>> <TH id="t1">Name</TH>
>>> <TH id="t2">Cups</TH>
>>> <TH id="t3" abbr="Type">Type of Coffee</TH>
>>> <TH id="t4">Sugar?</TH>
>>> <TR>
>>> <TD headers="t1">T. Sexton</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t2">10</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t3">Espresso</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t4">No</TD>
>>> <TR>
>>> <TD headers="t1">J. Dinnen</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t2">5</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t3">Decaf</TD>
>>> <TD headers="t4">Yes</TD>
>>> </TABLE>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some screen readers would read the following table like:
>>> It would read the caption and summary (which JAWS does do), but then would
>>> read:
>>> Name: T. Sexton, Cups: 10, Type: Expresso, Sugar: No
>>> Name: J. Dinnen Cups: 5, Type: Decaf, Sugar: Yes
>>>
>>> JAWS (which I found out at a recent seminar has over 80% of the market
>>> share would read it like:
>>> Name Cups Type Sugar
>>> T. Sexton, 10, Expresso, No
>>> J. Dinnen, 5, Decaf, Yes
>>>
>>> JAWS apparently does not read the ID tags so it doesn't index the
>>> individual data cell. I also checkedHomePage Reader and Outspoken and they
>>> read it the same as JAWS. Does anyone know if any of the screen readers
>>> read the id tags?
>>>
>>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>
>>> Stacy Canaras
>>> Sr. User Interface Engineer
>>> Hyperion Solutions
>>> 900 Long Ridge Road
>>> Stamford, CT 06902
>>> (203) 703-3323
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>>> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
- --
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)
WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.
- ---------------