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Thread: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?

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Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: glen walker
Date: Wed, Dec 09 2020 3:01PM
Subject: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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Perhaps too broad of a question and probably depends on the technology, but
we installed a desktop app on both the PC and the Mac and NVDA, JAWS, and
VoiceOver could not be used with the app. You couldn't navigate to any
elements with VO (ctrl+opt+shift+downarrow didn't do anything) and when
tabbing on the PC, the screen reader was silent. Even Microsoft's
Accessibility Insights couldn't find any elements in the app. Kind of hard
to test when nothing registers with assistive technology.

From: Weston Thayer
Date: Wed, Dec 09 2020 3:49PM
Subject: Re: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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I wonder if the app hand rolled its UI, maybe with OpenGL (since it's cross
platform) or something. They would have implement all the low level OS
accessibility APIs themselves in that case. All MSAI would detect is the
application window.

MS Word is an example of a native app that does this, it doesn't use any
platform UI toolkits like WPF or XAML where some accessibility would come
for free. Video games can often end up in this boat as well.

Weston Thayer
https://assistivlabs.com

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:01 PM glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Perhaps too broad of a question and probably depends on the technology, but
> we installed a desktop app on both the PC and the Mac and NVDA, JAWS, and
> VoiceOver could not be used with the app. You couldn't navigate to any
> elements with VO (ctrl+opt+shift+downarrow didn't do anything) and when
> tabbing on the PC, the screen reader was silent. Even Microsoft's
> Accessibility Insights couldn't find any elements in the app. Kind of hard
> to test when nothing registers with assistive technology.
> > > > >

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Wed, Dec 09 2020 3:51PM
Subject: Re: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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It's probably the app, not the screen readers. Especially if none of them
work with the app.
Quoted from www.access-board.gov

"The Section 508 Standards apply to electronic and information technology
procured by the federal government, including computer hardware and
software, websites, multimedia such as video, phone systems, and copiers."

Including hardware and software.
Most likely the developer of the app didn't make it accessible.

--Bevi

- - -
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
- - -
Latest blog-newsletter - Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen
walker
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 5:01 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?

Perhaps too broad of a question and probably depends on the technology, but
we installed a desktop app on both the PC and the Mac and NVDA, JAWS, and
VoiceOver could not be used with the app. You couldn't navigate to any
elements with VO (ctrl+opt+shift+downarrow didn't do anything) and when
tabbing on the PC, the screen reader was silent. Even Microsoft's
Accessibility Insights couldn't find any elements in the app. Kind of hard
to test when nothing registers with assistive technology.
http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

From: Tyler Shepard
Date: Thu, Dec 10 2020 1:14PM
Subject: Re: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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not to get too technical but screen readers such as JAWS/NVDA/Voiceover use
what is known as the accessibility tree to read content. I know that is how
it is done with the web but not sure how it is done with apps. I learned
about the accessibility tree from youtube hope that helps or opens some
kind of conversation.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:51 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> It's probably the app, not the screen readers. Especially if none of them
> work with the app.
> Quoted from www.access-board.gov
>
> "The Section 508 Standards apply to electronic and information technology
> procured by the federal government, including computer hardware and
> software, websites, multimedia such as video, phone systems, and copiers."
>
> Including hardware and software.
> Most likely the developer of the app didn't make it accessible.
>
> --Bevi
>
> - - -
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> - - -
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> - - -
> Latest blog-newsletter - Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen
> walker
> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 5:01 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
>
> Perhaps too broad of a question and probably depends on the technology, but
> we installed a desktop app on both the PC and the Mac and NVDA, JAWS, and
> VoiceOver could not be used with the app. You couldn't navigate to any
> elements with VO (ctrl+opt+shift+downarrow didn't do anything) and when
> tabbing on the PC, the screen reader was silent. Even Microsoft's
> Accessibility Insights couldn't find any elements in the app. Kind of hard
> to test when nothing registers with assistive technology.
> > > at
> http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >

From: glen walker
Date: Thu, Dec 10 2020 1:48PM
Subject: Re: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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The accessibility tree is a subset of the HTML DOM. A similar concept
exists for any application running on the desktop. For example, on Windows
platforms, the elements of an app should be surfaced through MSAA (or maybe
it's UI Automation).

In this case, since the Accessibility Insights tool doesn't work (which
lets you inspect the MSAA), the app is not surfacing any information to
assistive technology. I just found out the app is bundled with Adobe Air,
which is typically used for Flash applications. I've done lots of Flash
accessibility work so I know Flash apps can be accessible, but it's not
pretty. If you build your Flash app without the accessibility option in
the compiler, nothing will be surfaced to AT. I haven't confirmed yet if
that's the exact problem but wanted to give an update.

From: Jerra Strong
Date: Thu, Dec 10 2020 2:46PM
Subject: Re: why would a desktop app not work with a screen reader?
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I have seen mobile apps created with certain engines which are basically
"invisible" to the screen reader. It's about how the developer put the app
together, and whether any text, buttons, etc. are "exposed" to the
accessibility tools built into the system.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 12:49 PM glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> The accessibility tree is a subset of the HTML DOM. A similar concept
> exists for any application running on the desktop. For example, on Windows
> platforms, the elements of an app should be surfaced through MSAA (or maybe
> it's UI Automation).
>
> In this case, since the Accessibility Insights tool doesn't work (which
> lets you inspect the MSAA), the app is not surfacing any information to
> assistive technology. I just found out the app is bundled with Adobe Air,
> which is typically used for Flash applications. I've done lots of Flash
> accessibility work so I know Flash apps can be accessible, but it's not
> pretty. If you build your Flash app without the accessibility option in
> the compiler, nothing will be surfaced to AT. I haven't confirmed yet if
> that's the exact problem but wanted to give an update.
> > > > >


--
Jerra Strong
Interim Accessible Conformance and Design Specialist
UNLV|Office of Accessibility Resources
Office of the Vice Provost for Academic Programs
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
*Pronouns: He/Him/His*