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From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 1:26PM
Subject: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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Earlier today on the W3C WAI email discussion group, there was a mixed reaction to the news that accessiBe plan to become members of the W3C. I say it was a mixed reaction, because it was split between "this is a terrible thing and we have to stop it" and "this is a terrible thing but we should tolerate it till they break the rules". I side with the latter view.

Now I find that they are claiming to be building the world's first search engine for accessible sites - https://accessfind.com/. This is actually untrue - one of my colleagues created one in 2004.

I was immediately suspicious, and then I found this - "accessiBe-powered websites are automatically added". Add this to their W3C membership, and they are definitely trying to gain credibility by associating themselves with the right people and causes. They recently received $28 Million Series A funding, so I fear this is just the start, and that they will be a formidable adversary.

Regards,
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
020 3002 4176 (direct)
0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
07957 246 276 (mobile)
020 7692 5517 (fax)
Skype: testpartners
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.testpartners.co.uk
 
Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2

From: mbullis
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 1:33PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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Where did you find this quote. It will help with some other research I'm doing.
"accessiBe-powered websites are automatically added"

From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 1:50PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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I saw an announcement somewhere about this search engine. I think they are doing it with others, and it says it will only show "accessible sites." Well, who decides, and how???

Dave

From: Chris O'Brien
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 2:02PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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Given their past one would have to assume it will highlight sites using their technology.



Chris O'Brien
Director of Accessibility
Legal and Litigation


OLG Internal

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 3:01PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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I was poking around about a week ago, and thought they and somebody like
them were already listed. By allowing them to the table, we give them say
they benefit the WG. Does the W3C allow companies that do black hat SEO to
be members?

--
Ryan E. Benson

On Fri, May 28, 2021, 3:26 PM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Earlier today on the W3C WAI email discussion group, there was a mixed
> reaction to the news that accessiBe plan to become members of the W3C. I
> say it was a mixed reaction, because it was split between "this is a
> terrible thing and we have to stop it" and "this is a terrible thing but we
> should tolerate it till they break the rules". I side with the latter view.
>
> Now I find that they are claiming to be building the world's first search
> engine for accessible sites - https://accessfind.com/. This is actually
> untrue - one of my colleagues created one in 2004.
>
> I was immediately suspicious, and then I found this - "accessiBe-powered
> websites are automatically added". Add this to their W3C membership, and
> they are definitely trying to gain credibility by associating themselves
> with the right people and causes. They recently received $28 Million Series
> A funding, so I fear this is just the start, and that they will be a
> formidable adversary.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
> 020 3002 4176 (direct)
> 0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
> 07957 246 276 (mobile)
> 020 7692 5517 (fax)
> Skype: testpartners
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> www.testpartners.co.uk
>
> Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2
> > > > >

From: L Snider
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 3:11PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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The overall question is, is W3C checking all companies that are part of
developing standards? For professionals in the field, they are likely part
of companies, big or small, or academic institutions, organizations, etc.
What about conflict of interest by members?

Just overall questions to consider. For example, if one is developing a
standard such as WCAG (or even other working groups that influence WCAG),
which is specifically put into legislation, and becomes law for countries
around the world. This impacts millions of people, and has since 1999 (I
would argue today it is in way more legislation world wide and now impacts
so many more countries) it may be time to consider this at an organization
level for all W3C work.

Cheers

Lisa

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:02 PM Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I was poking around about a week ago, and thought they and somebody like
> them were already listed. By allowing them to the table, we give them say
> they benefit the WG. Does the W3C allow companies that do black hat SEO to
> be members?
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021, 3:26 PM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > Earlier today on the W3C WAI email discussion group, there was a mixed
> > reaction to the news that accessiBe plan to become members of the W3C. I
> > say it was a mixed reaction, because it was split between "this is a
> > terrible thing and we have to stop it" and "this is a terrible thing but
> we
> > should tolerate it till they break the rules". I side with the latter
> view.
> >
> > Now I find that they are claiming to be building the world's first search
> > engine for accessible sites - https://accessfind.com/. This is actually
> > untrue - one of my colleagues created one in 2004.
> >
> > I was immediately suspicious, and then I found this - "accessiBe-powered
> > websites are automatically added". Add this to their W3C membership, and
> > they are definitely trying to gain credibility by associating themselves
> > with the right people and causes. They recently received $28 Million
> Series
> > A funding, so I fear this is just the start, and that they will be a
> > formidable adversary.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> > 020 3002 4176 (direct)
> > 0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
> > 07957 246 276 (mobile)
> > 020 7692 5517 (fax)
> > Skype: testpartners
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > www.testpartners.co.uk
> >
> > Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 4:06PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
← Previous message | Next message →

That quote is under the "How do websites get listed on accessFind?" heading on the home page of https://accessfind.com/.

Steve

From: Shawn Henry
Date: Fri, May 28 2021 4:39PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Ryan, Lisa, Steve, WebAIM list folks,

In answer to your question and points: "Membership in W3C is open to all types of organizations... Any entity that can sign the Membership Agreement can become a Member." from:
Membership FAQ
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/membership-faq#who
(I think this is the latest Member Agreement, although I'd have to confirm if needed <https://www.w3.org/2009/12/Member-Agreement>.)

That is, W3C does not "allow" or deny any organization. And indeed some Members have conflicting interests with each other.

There are more perspectives on the WAI IG mailing list -- archives:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2021AprJun/thread.html

(If you decide to chime in there, please note: "Important: WAI IG List Conduct" with link to Code of Ethics/Conduct
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2021AprJun/0164.html

Best,
~Shawn
<http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/>;


On 28-May-21 4:11 PM, L Snider wrote:
> The overall question is, is W3C checking all companies that are part of
> developing standards? For professionals in the field, they are likely part
> of companies, big or small, or academic institutions, organizations, etc.
> What about conflict of interest by members?
>
> Just overall questions to consider. For example, if one is developing a
> standard such as WCAG (or even other working groups that influence WCAG),
> which is specifically put into legislation, and becomes law for countries
> around the world. This impacts millions of people, and has since 1999 (I
> would argue today it is in way more legislation world wide and now impacts
> so many more countries) it may be time to consider this at an organization
> level for all W3C work.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:02 PM Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> I was poking around about a week ago, and thought they and somebody like
>> them were already listed. By allowing them to the table, we give them say
>> they benefit the WG. Does the W3C allow companies that do black hat SEO to
>> be members?
>>
>> --
>> Ryan E. Benson
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021, 3:26 PM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Earlier today on the W3C WAI email discussion group, there was a mixed
>>> reaction to the news that accessiBe plan to become members of the W3C. I
>>> say it was a mixed reaction, because it was split between "this is a
>>> terrible thing and we have to stop it" and "this is a terrible thing but
>> we
>>> should tolerate it till they break the rules". I side with the latter
>> view.
>>>
>>> Now I find that they are claiming to be building the world's first search
>>> engine for accessible sites - https://accessfind.com/. This is actually
>>> untrue - one of my colleagues created one in 2004.
>>>
>>> I was immediately suspicious, and then I found this - "accessiBe-powered
>>> websites are automatically added". Add this to their W3C membership, and
>>> they are definitely trying to gain credibility by associating themselves
>>> with the right people and causes. They recently received $28 Million
>> Series
>>> A funding, so I fear this is just the start, and that they will be a
>>> formidable adversary.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve Green
>>> Managing Director
>>> Test Partners Ltd
>>> 020 3002 4176 (direct)
>>> 0800 612 2780 (switchboard)
>>> 07957 246 276 (mobile)
>>> 020 7692 5517 (fax)
>>> Skype: testpartners
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> www.testpartners.co.uk
>>>
>>> Connect to me on LinkedIn - http://uk.linkedin.com/in/stevegreen2
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Jun 25 2021 12:23AM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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It's nice to see that there's one organisation that's willing to take a strong stand against Accessibe. It's a shame the W3C took such a lame position on their membership.

https://nfb.org/about-us/press-room/national-convention-sponsorship-statement-regarding-accessibe

Steve

From: Zainab AlMeraj, PhD.
Date: Fri, Jun 25 2021 12:32AM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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Totally agree with you Steve. It is a shame.


Zainab AlMeraj, Ph.D. <https://www.linkedin.com/in/zainabalmeraj/>, CPUX-F
<https://uxqb.org/en/certification/foundation-level-cpux-f/>, CPACC
<https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/cpacccertification>,

*Assistant Professor *| Information Science Department
<http://www.isc.ku.edu.kw/>;* |* Kuwait University
<http://kuweb.ku.edu.kw/ku/index.htm>;

GDG Kuwait (Google Developer Group <https://www.instagram.com/gdgwtmkuwait/>
) | Rawasi NGO <https://www.instagram.com/rawasiq8/> | Tech Connect
<https://www.instagram.com/techconnectkw>

Connect for a chat...
<https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = /bookings/>


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:23 AM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> It's nice to see that there's one organisation that's willing to take a
> strong stand against Accessibe. It's a shame the W3C took such a lame
> position on their membership.
>
>
> https://nfb.org/about-us/press-room/national-convention-sponsorship-statement-regarding-accessibe
>
> Steve
>
>

From: Shawn Henry
Date: Fri, Jun 25 2021 6:16PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Steve,

W3C did not take any position on their membership, or on any other organization's membership. See previous messages on the WebAIM list and the WAI IG list. I'm not sure how else to explain this.

In case other people missed those messages, the essence is:
"Membership in W3C is open to all types of organizations (including commercial, educational and governmental entities) and individuals. Any entity that can sign the Membership Agreement can become a Member." -- from https://www.w3.org/Consortium/membership-faq#who

W3C does not pick and choose who can become members and who cannot. That is fundamental to what W3C is all about.

(Also fundamental to what WAI is all about is the W3C Process that promotes consensus of the Membership, Team, and public; and promotes fairness, responsiveness, and progress.
W3C Process Document
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/
And W3C's code of conduct that promotes high standards of professional practice and ensures an environment where people can participate without fear of harassment. That is important for all involved in such discussions under W3C.
Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
)

Feel free to contact me directly if you have further questions about W3C Membership.

Best regards,
~Shawn
<http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/>;



On 25-Jun-21 1:23 AM, Steve Green wrote:
> It's nice to see that there's one organisation that's willing to take a strong stand against Accessibe. It's a shame the W3C took such a lame position on their membership.
>
> https://nfb.org/about-us/press-room/national-convention-sponsorship-statement-regarding-accessibe
>
> Steve
>
>

From: Lucy GRECO
Date: Sat, Jun 26 2021 9:48AM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
← Previous message | Next message →

Sadly it needed the membership to be outraged and start screaming at them
though before they actually took this move they wouldn't have done it if
people hadn't complained

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 5:16 PM Shawn Henry < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> W3C did not take any position on their membership, or on any other
> organization's membership. See previous messages on the WebAIM list and the
> WAI IG list. I'm not sure how else to explain this.
>
> In case other people missed those messages, the essence is:
> "Membership in W3C is open to all types of organizations (including
> commercial, educational and governmental entities) and individuals. Any
> entity that can sign the Membership Agreement can become a Member." -- from
> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/membership-faq#who
>
> W3C does not pick and choose who can become members and who cannot. That
> is fundamental to what W3C is all about.
>
> (Also fundamental to what WAI is all about is the W3C Process that
> promotes consensus of the Membership, Team, and public; and promotes
> fairness, responsiveness, and progress.
> W3C Process Document
> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/
> And W3C's code of conduct that promotes high standards of professional
> practice and ensures an environment where people can participate without
> fear of harassment. That is important for all involved in such discussions
> under W3C.
> Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional
> Conduct
> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
> )
>
> Feel free to contact me directly if you have further questions about W3C
> Membership.
>
> Best regards,
> ~Shawn
> <http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/>;
>
>
>
> On 25-Jun-21 1:23 AM, Steve Green wrote:
> > It's nice to see that there's one organisation that's willing to take a
> strong stand against Accessibe. It's a shame the W3C took such a lame
> position on their membership.
> >
> >
> https://nfb.org/about-us/press-room/national-convention-sponsorship-statement-regarding-accessibe
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >

From: Ajay Sharma
Date: Sat, Jun 26 2021 6:31PM
Subject: Re: accessiBe are seeking credibility by association
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Maybe a clause concerning the use of overlays or any other such activities that claims for compliance by relying on hundred percent automation could be mentioned in the agreement. This would encourage people to think about the fact that it is not a correct practice and to do things in the right way.