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From: Logan Trafford
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 11:32AM
Subject: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
No previous message | Next message →

Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario as
distinctly as possible.

Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
There are two options
1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment tool.
2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in and
printed off.

As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user decides
to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF that is
generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a non-accessible
PDF that is produced.
Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke somehow?

thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.

Logan

From: Jerra Strong
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 11:38AM
Subject: Re: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Depends on what you want that end-user to be doing with the PDF.

The "print to PDF" function is pretty much guaranteed to make a print-only
PDF with no tags, so you would have to have some separate tool that
generates a PDF which is meeting the standards you want, or provide an
already-created PDF for download at some link. Or, you could have them
fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is
okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and
stick it in an envelope.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:32 AM Logan Trafford < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario as
> distinctly as possible.
>
> Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
> There are two options
> 1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment
> tool.
> 2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in and
> printed off.
>
> As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user decides
> to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF that is
> generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a non-accessible
> PDF that is produced.
> Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke somehow?
>
> thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.
>
> Logan
> > > > >

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 11:46AM
Subject: Re: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Seconding this method Jerra S suggests:
" you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and stick it in an envelope."

PDFs for print are exempt from accessibility requirements.

However, it would be much more beneficial and useful to users if it was digitally accessible as well.

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jerra Strong
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:39 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility

Depends on what you want that end-user to be doing with the PDF.

The "print to PDF" function is pretty much guaranteed to make a print-only PDF with no tags, so you would have to have some separate tool that generates a PDF which is meeting the standards you want, or provide an already-created PDF for download at some link. Or, you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and stick it in an envelope.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:32 AM Logan Trafford < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario
> as distinctly as possible.
>
> Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
> There are two options
> 1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment
> tool.
> 2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in
> and printed off.
>
> As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user
> decides to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF
> that is generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a
> non-accessible PDF that is produced.
> Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke somehow?
>
> thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.
>
> Logan
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >

From: Jerra Strong
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 12:33PM
Subject: Re: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Bevi speaks the truth. What if they want to keep a second copy for their
reference? Personally, I would like to see a straightforward way to get a
tagged pdf from (already tagged and structured) HTML content become the
norm.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:47 AM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Seconding this method Jerra S suggests:
> " you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an
> already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are
> just going to print it and stick it in an envelope."
>
> PDFs for print are exempt from accessibility requirements.
>
> However, it would be much more beneficial and useful to users if it was
> digitally accessible as well.
>
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> — — —
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> — — —
> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Jerra Strong
> Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:39 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility
>
> Depends on what you want that end-user to be doing with the PDF.
>
> The "print to PDF" function is pretty much guaranteed to make a print-only
> PDF with no tags, so you would have to have some separate tool that
> generates a PDF which is meeting the standards you want, or provide an
> already-created PDF for download at some link. Or, you could have them
> fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is
> okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and
> stick it in an envelope.
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:32 AM Logan Trafford < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario
> > as distinctly as possible.
> >
> > Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
> > There are two options
> > 1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment
> > tool.
> > 2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in
> > and printed off.
> >
> > As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user
> > decides to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF
> > that is generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a
> > non-accessible PDF that is produced.
> > Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke
> somehow?
> >
> > thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.
> >
> > Logan
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 3:00PM
Subject: Re: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Jerra, that's a terrific idea that should be logged at www.Acrobat.UserVoice.com <http://www.Acrobat.UserVoice.com>;



Adobe could design its browser plugins to recognize the tags and DOM of a webpage to create a Print-to-PDF version that retains the accessibility. Nothing preventing any other PDF-creation software from doing this, too, such as FoxIt and CairoGraphics.



When you post at UserVoice, let us know on the list so we can vote for the feature.



— — —

Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

— — —

PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing

consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services

Upcoming classes at <http://www.pubcom.com/classes>; www.PubCom.com/classes

— — —

<https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574> Latest blog-newsletter – <https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml> Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text



From: Jerra Strong < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 2:34 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility



Bevi speaks the truth. What if they want to keep a second copy for their reference? Personally, I would like to see a straightforward way to get a tagged pdf from (already tagged and structured) HTML content become the norm.



On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:47 AM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:

Seconding this method Jerra S suggests:
" you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and stick it in an envelope."

PDFs for print are exempt from accessibility requirements.

However, it would be much more beneficial and useful to users if it was digitally accessible as well.

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes <http://www.PubCom.com/classes>;
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > On Behalf Of Jerra Strong
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:39 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility

Depends on what you want that end-user to be doing with the PDF.

The "print to PDF" function is pretty much guaranteed to make a print-only PDF with no tags, so you would have to have some separate tool that generates a PDF which is meeting the standards you want, or provide an already-created PDF for download at some link. Or, you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and stick it in an envelope.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:32 AM Logan Trafford < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > >
wrote:

> Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario
> as distinctly as possible.
>
> Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
> There are two options
> 1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment
> tool.
> 2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in
> and printed off.
>
> As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user
> decides to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF
> that is generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a
> non-accessible PDF that is produced.
> Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke somehow?
>
> thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.
>
> Logan
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >

From: Jerra Strong
Date: Thu, Oct 07 2021 4:04PM
Subject: Re: print to PDF functionality and accessibility
← Previous message | No next message

Due to popular demand, this has been posted at Adobe UserVoice. Should
Adobe provide a way to create accessible PDFs from the web? Vote now on
your phones!

https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/931921-acrobat-in-chrome/suggestions/44257476-print-to-accessible-pdf

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:01 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Jerra, that's a terrific idea that should be logged at
> www.Acrobat.UserVoice.com <http://www.Acrobat.UserVoice.com>;
>
>
>
> Adobe could design its browser plugins to recognize the tags and DOM of a
> webpage to create a Print-to-PDF version that retains the accessibility.
> Nothing preventing any other PDF-creation software from doing this, too,
> such as FoxIt and CairoGraphics.
>
>
>
> When you post at UserVoice, let us know on the list so we can vote for the
> feature.
>
>
>
> — — —
>
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> — — —
>
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>
> consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
>
> Upcoming classes at <http://www.pubcom.com/classes>;
> www.PubCom.com/classes
>
> — — —
>
> <https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574> Latest
> blog-newsletter – <
> https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml> Simple
> Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
>
>
> From: Jerra Strong < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 2:34 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; WebAIM Discussion List <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility
>
>
>
> Bevi speaks the truth. What if they want to keep a second copy for their
> reference? Personally, I would like to see a straightforward way to get a
> tagged pdf from (already tagged and structured) HTML content become the
> norm.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:47 AM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > wrote:
>
> Seconding this method Jerra S suggests:
> " you could have them fill the form online, and then generate an
> already-filled PDF, which is okay that it's print-only, because they are
> just going to print it and stick it in an envelope."
>
> PDFs for print are exempt from accessibility requirements.
>
> However, it would be much more beneficial and useful to users if it was
> digitally accessible as well.
>
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> — — —
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes <http://www.PubCom.com/classes>;
>
> — — —
> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > > On Behalf Of Jerra Strong
> Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 1:39 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] print to PDF functionality and accessibility
>
> Depends on what you want that end-user to be doing with the PDF.
>
> The "print to PDF" function is pretty much guaranteed to make a print-only
> PDF with no tags, so you would have to have some separate tool that
> generates a PDF which is meeting the standards you want, or provide an
> already-created PDF for download at some link. Or, you could have them
> fill the form online, and then generate an already-filled PDF, which is
> okay that it's print-only, because they are just going to print it and
> stick it in an envelope.
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 10:32 AM Logan Trafford < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > >
> wrote:
>
> > Bit of an odd question perhaps and I'll try to describe the scenario
> > as distinctly as possible.
> >
> > Our developers have created an accessible HTML payment form.
> > There are two options
> > 1. continue to pay online, which takes the user to a 3rd party payment
> > tool.
> > 2. select the option to mail in the payment, with the form filled in
> > and printed off.
> >
> > As stated, the HTML form itself is WCAG conformant, BUT if a user
> > decides to save (or print) as PDF, is there any way to control the PDF
> > that is generated automatically? In other words, currently it is a
> > non-accessible PDF that is produced.
> > Is there another step in the process that we would need to invoke
> somehow?
> >
> > thanks in advance for any thoughts or input.
> >
> > Logan
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > > > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > > > >