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Thread: Angular tables and accessibility
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 1:41AM
Subject: Angular tables and accessibility
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Hi List,
A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements) rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be use these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this makes it difficult for screen readers to interpret.
I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of whatever variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA roles would have an effect on table elements other than those in plain HTML, i.e., if role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on  <ngx-datatable> elements?
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
From: Steve Green
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 1:49AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as the contents linearise correctly.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Lars Ballieu Christensen
Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
Hi List,
A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements) rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be use these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this makes it difficult for screen readers to interpret.
I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of whatever variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA roles would have an effect on table elements other than those in plain HTML, i.e., if role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on  <ngx-datatable> elements?
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 1:54AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
If the Angular table elements don't render as a data table you
shouldn't need role="presentation" (and a screen reader will not
present a table with no th cells or caption as a table)
But it doesn't hurt to put it there, just in caase.
On 3/9/22, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as the
> contents linearise correctly.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Lars
> Ballieu Christensen
> Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
>
> Hi List,
>
>
>
> A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements)
> rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be use
> these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this makes it
> difficult for screen readers to interpret.
>
>
>
> I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of whatever
> variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA roles would have
> an effect on table elements other than those in plain HTML, i.e., if
> role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on  <ngx-datatable>
> elements?
>
>
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
>
>
> Lars
>
> ----
>
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
>
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
>
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
>
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
>
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
>
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
>
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Steve Green
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 1:57AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
That's true from a user experience perspective. However, for WCAG conformance, you must use role="presentation" on the table elements.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: 09 March 2022 08:54
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
If the Angular table elements don't render as a data table you shouldn't need role="presentation" (and a screen reader will not present a table with no th cells or caption as a table) But it doesn't hurt to put it there, just in caase.
On 3/9/22, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as
> the contents linearise correctly.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
>
> Hi List,
>
>
>
> A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements)
> rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be
> use these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this
> makes it difficult for screen readers to interpret.
>
>
>
> I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of
> whatever variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA
> roles would have an effect on table elements other than those in plain
> HTML, i.e., if role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on Â
> <ngx-datatable> elements?
>
>
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
>
>
> Lars
>
> ----
>
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
>
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
>
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
>
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
>
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
>
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
>
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 2:05AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
The thing is that the <ngx-datatable> elements render as <ngx-datatable> elements and that these appear to screen reader users as tables without contents and/or tables lacking basic markup. So I am curious to know whether role=âpresentationâ will work and have the desired/any effect on <ngx-datatable> elements ...
Venligst/Kind regards
Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
On 09/03/2022, 09.54, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
If the Angular table elements don't render as a data table you
shouldn't need role="presentation" (and a screen reader will not
present a table with no th cells or caption as a table)
But it doesn't hurt to put it there, just in caase.
On 3/9/22, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as the
> contents linearise correctly.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Lars
> Ballieu Christensen
> Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
>
> Hi List,
>
>
>
> A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements)
> rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be use
> these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this makes it
> difficult for screen readers to interpret.
>
>
>
> I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of whatever
> variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA roles would have
> an effect on table elements other than those in plain HTML, i.e., if
> role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on <ngx-datatable>
> elements?
>
>
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
>
>
> Lars
>
> ----
>
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
>
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
>
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
>
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
>
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
>
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
>
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 2:11AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Yeap, the presentation role should work on any element. It's
surprising that screen readers are picking up something from the
Angular elements directly, it should only be picking up the HTML that
gets generated when those elements are used.
If you have the exact component and if there's an example page you can
easily test it. Just add the role="presentation" attribute in the DOM,
using the developer tools, and test the webpage with a screen reader.
On 3/9/22, Lars Ballieu Christensen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> The thing is that the <ngx-datatable> elements render as <ngx-datatable>
> elements and that these appear to screen reader users as tables without
> contents and/or tables lacking basic markup. So I am curious to know whether
> role=âpresentationâ will work and have the desired/any effect on
> <ngx-datatable> elements ...
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
> Lars
> ----
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> On 09/03/2022, 09.54, "WebAIM-Forum on behalf of Birkir R. Gunnarsson"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> If the Angular table elements don't render as a data table you
> shouldn't need role="presentation" (and a screen reader will not
> present a table with no th cells or caption as a table)
> But it doesn't hurt to put it there, just in caase.
>
>
> On 3/9/22, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as
> the
> > contents linearise correctly.
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Lars
> > Ballieu Christensen
> > Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
> > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> >
> >
> > A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements)
> > rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be
> use
> > these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this makes
> it
> > difficult for screen readers to interpret.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of
> whatever
> > variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA roles would
> have
> > an effect on table elements other than those in plain HTML, i.e., if
> > role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on
> <ngx-datatable>
> > elements?
> >
> >
> >
> > Venligst/Kind regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Lars
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Lars Ballieu Christensen
> >
> > RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
> >
> > Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
> >
> > Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
> >
> > Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
> >
> >
> >
> > Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
> >
> > Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > archives at
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: wolfgang.berndorfer@zweiterblick.at
Date: Wed, Mar 09 2022 8:49AM
Subject: Re: Angular tables and accessibility
← Previous message | No next message
> and a screen reader will not present a table with no th cells or caption as a table
This was new for me so I tested a table without caption and any th:
Jaws/Fusion 2022 recognized the table and the number of cols and rows.
So SR might have mor criteria to classify just as a layout table.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2022 9:54 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
If the Angular table elements don't render as a data table you shouldn't need role="presentation" (and a screen reader will not present a table with no th cells or caption as a table) But it doesn't hurt to put it there, just in caase.
On 3/9/22, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes, you can use role="presentation" on the table elements as long as
> the contents linearise correctly.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
> Sent: 09 March 2022 08:42
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Angular tables and accessibility
>
> Hi List,
>
>
>
> A client of ours is using angular data tables (ngx-datatable elements)
> rather than ordinary html table elements; furthermore, they seem to be
> use these for layout purposes rather than for data. Obviously, this
> makes it difficult for screen readers to interpret.
>
>
>
> I'm aware that the best solution would be not to use data tables of
> whatever variety for layout. However, does anyone know whether ARIA
> roles would have an effect on table elements other than those in plain
> HTML, i.e., if role=âpresentationâ could be used and have an effect on
> <ngx-datatable> elements?
>
>
>
> Venligst/Kind regards
>
>
>
> Lars
>
> ----
>
> Lars Ballieu Christensen
>
> RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
>
> Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
>
> Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 â Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
>
> Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = â Web: https://www.sensus.dk
>
>
>
> Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
>
> Working for an accessible and inclusive information society
>
>
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.