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Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: aleland@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Dec 09 2022 10:58AM
Subject: question about PDF access
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Hi there,

I'm a low-vision writer with a book about blindness coming out this summer
from a commercial press, and I want to make sure that all of the publicity
materials are accessible. I just got my first marketing PDF from my
publisher, and while I can read the text fine on Acrobat for Windows with
JAWS, it ignores the decorative images around the text, and when I look at
the PDF on my iphone with voiceover, it cuts off each line of the text and
generates auto alt text for the images. Can anyone help me figure out what
to say to my publisher to help ensure that all our materials are accessible?
They have a great design team who I think will be willing to adjust their
processes but even though I'm a screen-reader user I don't really know what
to tell them, as I'd like to say something more useful than "there is a
website called webaim that you should click on ;)"

Thanks much for any help anyone can offer!

All best,

Andrew

andrewleland.org

From: Lars Ballieu Christensen
Date: Fri, Dec 09 2022 11:09AM
Subject: Re: question about PDF access
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Andrew

If you mail me the copy, we'll be happy to review it and make recommendations.

Venligst/Kind regards

Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
RÃ¥dgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS
Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 – Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = – Web: https://www.sensus.dk

Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund
Working for an accessible and inclusive information society



On 09/12/2022, 18.58, " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = " < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Hi there,

I'm a low-vision writer with a book about blindness coming out this summer
from a commercial press, and I want to make sure that all of the publicity
materials are accessible. I just got my first marketing PDF from my
publisher, and while I can read the text fine on Acrobat for Windows with
JAWS, it ignores the decorative images around the text, and when I look at
the PDF on my iphone with voiceover, it cuts off each line of the text and
generates auto alt text for the images. Can anyone help me figure out what
to say to my publisher to help ensure that all our materials are accessible?
They have a great design team who I think will be willing to adjust their
processes but even though I'm a screen-reader user I don't really know what
to tell them, as I'd like to say something more useful than "there is a
website called webaim that you should click on ;)"

Thanks much for any help anyone can offer!

All best,

Andrew

andrewleland.org

From: Steve Green
Date: Sat, Dec 10 2022 9:46AM
Subject: Re: question about PDF access
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I would be happy to take a look too, if you want to send it to me. Better still, send the source document so we can see the cause of any issues.

It's worth noting that there is more to PDF accessibility than screen reader behaviour. Hopefully the designers will have ensured the colour contrast is good, but very few pay attention to the reading order in Adobe Reader's Reflow view, which is intended for people who need a high level of magnification.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Lars Ballieu Christensen
Sent: 09 December 2022 18:10
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] question about PDF access

Hi Andrew

If you mail me the copy, we'll be happy to review it and make recommendations.

Venligst/Kind regards

Lars
----
Lars Ballieu Christensen
Rådgiver/Adviser, Ph.D., M.Sc., Sensus ApS Specialister i tilgængelighed/Accessibility Consultants
Tel: +45 48 22 10 03 – Mobil: +45 40 32 68 23 - Skype: Ballieu
Mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = – Web: https://www.sensus.dk

Vi arbejder for et tilgængeligt og rummeligt informationssamfund Working for an accessible and inclusive information society



On 09/12/2022, 18.58, " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = " < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = on behalf of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Hi there,

I'm a low-vision writer with a book about blindness coming out this summer
from a commercial press, and I want to make sure that all of the publicity
materials are accessible. I just got my first marketing PDF from my
publisher, and while I can read the text fine on Acrobat for Windows with
JAWS, it ignores the decorative images around the text, and when I look at
the PDF on my iphone with voiceover, it cuts off each line of the text and
generates auto alt text for the images. Can anyone help me figure out what
to say to my publisher to help ensure that all our materials are accessible?
They have a great design team who I think will be willing to adjust their
processes but even though I'm a screen-reader user I don't really know what
to tell them, as I'd like to say something more useful than "there is a
website called webaim that you should click on ;)"

Thanks much for any help anyone can offer!

All best,

Andrew

andrewleland.org

From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2022 6:01PM
Subject: Re: question about PDF access
← Previous message | Next message →

Glad to look at the pdf if you can make it available to me.
Alan

> On Dec 9, 2022, at 12:58, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I'm a low-vision writer with a book about blindness coming out this summer
> from a commercial press, and I want to make sure that all of the publicity
> materials are accessible. I just got my first marketing PDF from my
> publisher, and while I can read the text fine on Acrobat for Windows with
> JAWS, it ignores the decorative images around the text, and when I look at
> the PDF on my iphone with voiceover, it cuts off each line of the text and
> generates auto alt text for the images. Can anyone help me figure out what
> to say to my publisher to help ensure that all our materials are accessible?
> They have a great design team who I think will be willing to adjust their
> processes but even though I'm a screen-reader user I don't really know what
> to tell them, as I'd like to say something more useful than "there is a
> website called webaim that you should click on ;)"
>
> Thanks much for any help anyone can offer!
>
> All best,
>
> Andrew
>
> andrewleland.org
>
>

From: Nathan Clark
Date: Mon, Dec 26 2022 8:42AM
Subject: Re: question about pdf documents
← Previous message | Next message →

Dear list,

Sorry if the topic has been discussed at severe length in the past.

I just got let go by my company last monday as their top accessibility
tester due to lack of work for me to do at the company (now I am back
in the job market.) I am completely blind and have been a native
screen reader user for 22 years or so now. A lot of these job
descriptions by these companies are asking for experience with being
able to be able to remediate PDF documents for accessibility purposes.
How as a blind person can I do such a thing when companies want me to
take a document that I can't read or test and make it accessible?
Sorry if it sounds like I am complaining but how do these companies
expect blind testers to work at their companies but also ask them to
fix inaccessible documents? Am I missing something or something wrong
with these companies. Thanks

If anyone is looking for accessibility testers at their company please
let me know and would love to send my resume to them.
Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Tue, Dec 27 2022 9:22AM
Subject: Re: question about pdf documents
← Previous message | Next message →

I'm sorry to hear that.

I think your best bet is sending your CV to companies that specialize in
accessibility, or large companies that have teams of accessibility
specialists, and don't forget to check the federal government jobs. They'll
be the most likely to provide accommodations to you and use your skills.
Since you are blind, there would definitely be some obstacles to
remediating documents (mainly figuring out what the images/tables/etc are
trying to convey), but if you were part of a team, that shouldn't be an
issue, in my opinion anyway.

I think your greatest asset is testing documents and websites with
assistive technology. Most of us remediators know the bare minimum to do
basic testing. It takes a very long time to know all the intricacies of
JAWS, NVDA, and other screen readers, not to mention the assistive tech for
zooming, color contrast, etc.

If you apply at companies that are looking for a jack-of-all-trades
accessibility specialist -- frankly they want too much from any one person,
and I don't think you'll have much luck with them. (That's a pet peeve of
mine - a WCAG programmer, a document remediator and an assistive tech
tester are three different jobs!!!)

Your other option is creating profiles on the freelancing sites (Upwork,
Fiverr, etc) as a QA tester for accessibility. It's at least something you
could do while you are searching for a new job.

Hope that was helpful.
Laura

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 10:42 AM Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> Sorry if the topic has been discussed at severe length in the past.
>
> I just got let go by my company last monday as their top accessibility
> tester due to lack of work for me to do at the company (now I am back
> in the job market.) I am completely blind and have been a native
> screen reader user for 22 years or so now. A lot of these job
> descriptions by these companies are asking for experience with being
> able to be able to remediate PDF documents for accessibility purposes.
> How as a blind person can I do such a thing when companies want me to
> take a document that I can't read or test and make it accessible?
> Sorry if it sounds like I am complaining but how do these companies
> expect blind testers to work at their companies but also ask them to
> fix inaccessible documents? Am I missing something or something wrong
> with these companies. Thanks
>
> If anyone is looking for accessibility testers at their company please
> let me know and would love to send my resume to them.
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
> > > > >


--
Best regards,
Laura Roberts
413-588-8422

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Tue, Dec 27 2022 11:50AM
Subject: Re: question about pdf documents
← Previous message | Next message →

All federal government jobs are listed at www.USAjobs.gov
Check to see if the job is open to every US citizen or only to existing federal employees.
You develop one central resume and list of skills/objectives and they are available to all agencies.

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Laura Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 11:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] question about pdf documents

I'm sorry to hear that.

I think your best bet is sending your CV to companies that specialize in accessibility, or large companies that have teams of accessibility specialists, and don't forget to check the federal government jobs. They'll be the most likely to provide accommodations to you and use your skills.
Since you are blind, there would definitely be some obstacles to remediating documents (mainly figuring out what the images/tables/etc are trying to convey), but if you were part of a team, that shouldn't be an issue, in my opinion anyway.

I think your greatest asset is testing documents and websites with assistive technology. Most of us remediators know the bare minimum to do basic testing. It takes a very long time to know all the intricacies of JAWS, NVDA, and other screen readers, not to mention the assistive tech for zooming, color contrast, etc.

If you apply at companies that are looking for a jack-of-all-trades accessibility specialist -- frankly they want too much from any one person, and I don't think you'll have much luck with them. (That's a pet peeve of mine - a WCAG programmer, a document remediator and an assistive tech tester are three different jobs!!!)

Your other option is creating profiles on the freelancing sites (Upwork, Fiverr, etc) as a QA tester for accessibility. It's at least something you could do while you are searching for a new job.

Hope that was helpful.
Laura

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 10:42 AM Nathan Clark < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> Sorry if the topic has been discussed at severe length in the past.
>
> I just got let go by my company last monday as their top accessibility
> tester due to lack of work for me to do at the company (now I am back
> in the job market.) I am completely blind and have been a native
> screen reader user for 22 years or so now. A lot of these job
> descriptions by these companies are asking for experience with being
> able to be able to remediate PDF documents for accessibility purposes.
> How as a blind person can I do such a thing when companies want me to
> take a document that I can't read or test and make it accessible?
> Sorry if it sounds like I am complaining but how do these companies
> expect blind testers to work at their companies but also ask them to
> fix inaccessible documents? Am I missing something or something wrong
> with these companies. Thanks
>
> If anyone is looking for accessibility testers at their company please
> let me know and would love to send my resume to them.
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Best regards,
Laura Roberts
413-588-8422

From: Peter Shikli
Date: Thu, Dec 29 2022 10:25PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: question about pdf documents (Nathan Clark)
← Previous message | Next message →

Jared,

I didn't see my post below appear.  Did I violate a policy?

Cheers,
Peter


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: question about pdf documents (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 21:42:26 -0800
From: Peter Shikli < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Organization: Access2online
To: WebAIM Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >



Nathan,

There is bad news and good news here if you focus on the difference
between accessibility and usability.

A blind person cannot test for accessibility any more than he can tell
if an image's alt description is accurate, or check that a tab order
doesn't miss something.

But where a blind person can shine is in the usability testing to follow
that answers the question, "How well does this accessible version
produce a good experience for the blind user?"

Of course a minimalist approach says that accessibility regulations are
fulfilled without addressing usability, but the counter-argument is that
the client has paid for content to achieve some objective -- to sell
something, to teach something, or to convince someone -- and they have
dropped the ball just short of a touchdown as far as their blind
visitors are concerned. Another argument is how such usability addresses
an SEO improvement since search engine spiders are blind, but that is
another story.

I have watched our rather talented accessibility analysts take a swing
at usability testing, listening to their screen reader while following
along on a computer display with their mouse. For that job, they are
disabled by being sighted.

If you agree with the above, I suggest you join the virtual workforce
and field a for-profit website promoting only your specialty services,
usability testing. Market not to document owners, as we do, but to
accessibility service providers like us. Your pitch can be "We'll take
your deliverable across the finish line without a risk of approaching
your client to do the whole job."

If the above appeals to you, let me know, and I'll help you launch your
website just to have such a vendor ready to work for us.

Cheers,
Peter Shikli
Access2online Inc.
29030 SW Town Center Loop East
Suite 202-187
Wilsonville, OR 97070
503-570-6831 - = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Cell: 949-677-3705
FAX: 503-582-8337
www.access2online.com
Prison inmates helping the internet become accessible

From: Guy Hickling
Date: Fri, Dec 30 2022 2:10PM
Subject: Re: question about pdf documents
← Previous message | No next message

Here is one source of employment that no one seems to have mentioned so
far. Some web testing companies specialise specifically in providing
"disabled user testing" of websites. They provide teams of users with
various disabilities to test a website or app, usually for large companies,
government agencies, and other organisations that have the money to pay for
such testing. So, they will agree with the organisation on what testers the
client wants. For instance, a large company might want two blind screen
reader testers, a keyboard tester, someone with autism, someone with low
vision, and so on. I suspect some of these testing companies don't pay very
well, but others will no doubt pay reasonably. (For example, there is one
such company in Neath in Wales, with a whole room full of people with
various disabilities.) Very large companies may even employ disabled people
for particular testing roles.

Don't necessarily limit to looking for local work. In this post-Covid
world, lots of companies have realised they can have people working
entirely remotely - even with people in different countries (though a lot
of US countries are a bit snooty about that). One piece of advice I would
suggest, while you still have money left from your last job, is to make
sure you have all the devices (a good Windows desktop PC, a mobile device
(preferably both Apple and Galaxy Android or whatever is used in your
country), you need to work as a tester from home.

I strongly recommend, to anyone, that you learn the HTML and CSS solutions
for web accessibility issues, if you don't already. It puts you in a much
stronger position if you can tell the developers, not just what's wrong,
but also how to put it right (because web developers don't usually know the
accessible solutions which is why their stuff is inaccessible in the first
place, of course!) Also, when you can work with a sighted person you can
share the testing; they do the sighted bits while you do the screen reader
testing.

Another field of testing work is in disabled user testing of household
appliances - manufacturers are being forced by law to make sure their
appliances can be used by blind people and others. That's a hot topic in
Europe right now, due to new legislation requiring accessible household
appliances - though I haven't been following that so don't know much about
it. You don't say which country you are in but I expect there is similar
legislation there, either existing or coming in. (It's best when new
legislation is just coming in, because it builds a huge need but there are
few people in the field! - so plenty of scope for getting into the field.)

Finally, I also suggest adding a profile about yourself on LinkedIn,
describing the kind of screen reader testing you can do. A lot of companies
look on LinkedIn when they want employees for the more esoteric roles.