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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: David Farough
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 9:12AM
Subject: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
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I am having trouble getting this pattern to work properly using Jaws.

Is there a particular jaws setting that I should adjust to make the tabs work as expected?

When I go to the examples https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/tabs/examples/tabs-automatic/
I get the following behaviour when in the tab list.
Pressing the down arrow key moves to the next tab in the list but does not activate the new tab.
Pressing tab at this point does not take me to the active tab panel, instead, my focus goes to the next tab in the list.
Pressing the up or down arrow keys are working as if this were a vertical tab list.
Pressing the left or right arrow keys move by character within the focussed tab.

When using NVDA these tabs work as expected.

I have been looking at the Jaws Navigation options for tables, controls, Controls and tables, and off settings.
These do not cause the tabs to be activated when focussed.

Is there another setting I should look at?
I don't remember running into this issue before.
I would appreciate Any information on this issue.
Thanks

From: East, Robin
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 9:52AM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | Next message →

David, does it matter what browser you are using. Example the virtual cursor staying on option only works in Chrome at this time but at the moment I cannot switch browsers to test and I have similar results as you with using Edge. The TAB feature of the virtual cursor is under miscellaneous but do not know if it being on or off will affect the behaviour in this case.

Robin East, CPACC
Accessibility Centre of Excellence | Accessibility of applications
ICT Accessibility | Accessibility Knowledge Base



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of David Farough
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 9:12 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour

I am having trouble getting this pattern to work properly using Jaws.

Is there a particular jaws setting that I should adjust to make the tabs work as expected?

When I go to the examples https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/tabs/examples/tabs-automatic/
I get the following behaviour when in the tab list.
Pressing the down arrow key moves to the next tab in the list but does not activate the new tab.
Pressing tab at this point does not take me to the active tab panel, instead, my focus goes to the next tab in the list.
Pressing the up or down arrow keys are working as if this were a vertical tab list.
Pressing the left or right arrow keys move by character within the focussed tab.

When using NVDA these tabs work as expected.

I have been looking at the Jaws Navigation options for tables, controls, Controls and tables, and off settings.
These do not cause the tabs to be activated when focussed.

Is there another setting I should look at?
I don't remember running into this issue before.
I would appreciate Any information on this issue.
Thanks

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 10:24AM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | Next message →

What is your auto forms mode set to? I generally use semi-automatic, and the default should be “automatic”.
You can also try pressing insert-Z to disable the virtual cursor and see if the behavior is more what you expect.


> On May 17, 2023, at 11:12 AM, David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I am having trouble getting this pattern to work properly using Jaws.
>
> Is there a particular jaws setting that I should adjust to make the tabs work as expected?
>
> When I go to the examples https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/tabs/examples/tabs-automatic/
> I get the following behaviour when in the tab list.
> Pressing the down arrow key moves to the next tab in the list but does not activate the new tab.
> Pressing tab at this point does not take me to the active tab panel, instead, my focus goes to the next tab in the list.
> Pressing the up or down arrow keys are working as if this were a vertical tab list.
> Pressing the left or right arrow keys move by character within the focussed tab.
>
> When using NVDA these tabs work as expected.
>
> I have been looking at the Jaws Navigation options for tables, controls, Controls and tables, and off settings.
> These do not cause the tabs to be activated when focussed.
>
> Is there another setting I should look at?
> I don't remember running into this issue before.
> I would appreciate Any information on this issue.
> Thanks
> > > >

From: glen walker
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 10:52AM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | Next message →

Both JAWS and NVDA are working ok for me on Chrome and Firefox. I hear an
audible change when I TAB (key) to the tablist because it automatically
switches between browse mode and forms mode (or whatever your favorite
terms are for the two modes). I get the same audible sound when tabbing to
an input field.

I'm using the default settings in both screen readers which is automatic
switching between modes. As Jonathan said, you can switch modes manually
with Ins+Z for JAWS and Ins+space for NVDA.

Here is a partial list of when the mode should automatically switch.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/practices/keyboard-interface/#fundamentalkeyboardnavigationconventions

These are elements that require you to manage the focus and it happens to
map to the same elements that switch modes automatically. (The input
element is not in that list because it doesn't require focus management but
it does switch modes.)

From: David Farough
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 11:31AM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks for the link.

When I tab to the tabs list I do not hear the sound to indicate the switch to focus mode.
Pressing Insert + z does turn off the virtual cursor,and then I can move from tab to tab using the right or left arrow keys. The tab panel does change when the focus changes
But when tabbing to the active panel, I cannot read the content unless I turn on the virtual cursor again using insert + z.
I do have my auto forms mode setting set to auto (the default). .

Maybe it's time to repair Jaws.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 12:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour

Both JAWS and NVDA are working ok for me on Chrome and Firefox. I hear an
audible change when I TAB (key) to the tablist because it automatically
switches between browse mode and forms mode (or whatever your favorite
terms are for the two modes). I get the same audible sound when tabbing to
an input field.

I'm using the default settings in both screen readers which is automatic
switching between modes. As Jonathan said, you can switch modes manually
with Ins+Z for JAWS and Ins+space for NVDA.

Here is a partial list of when the mode should automatically switch.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/practices/keyboard-interface/#fundamentalkeyboardnavigationconventions

These are elements that require you to manage the focus and it happens to
map to the same elements that switch modes automatically. (The input
element is not in that list because it doesn't require focus management but
it does switch modes.)

From: Clare O'Keeffe
Date: Wed, May 17 2023 12:10PM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | Next message →

I have auto forms mode set to auto as well, and I get the same experience
with ARIA tablists, of not automatically entering forms mode when tabbing
to one with JAWS. I just hit Enter when focused on one of the tabs and that
triggers forms mode. From there things work as expected. I feel like it has
behaved this way for some time for me.

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 1:31 PM David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Thanks for the link.
>
> When I tab to the tabs list I do not hear the sound to indicate the switch
> to focus mode.
> Pressing Insert + z does turn off the virtual cursor,and then I can move
> from tab to tab using the right or left arrow keys. The tab panel does
> change when the focus changes
> But when tabbing to the active panel, I cannot read the content unless I
> turn on the virtual cursor again using insert + z.
> I do have my auto forms mode setting set to auto (the default). .
>
> Maybe it's time to repair Jaws.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 12:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices
> document with current Jaws behaviour
>
> Both JAWS and NVDA are working ok for me on Chrome and Firefox. I hear an
> audible change when I TAB (key) to the tablist because it automatically
> switches between browse mode and forms mode (or whatever your favorite
> terms are for the two modes). I get the same audible sound when tabbing to
> an input field.
>
> I'm using the default settings in both screen readers which is automatic
> switching between modes. As Jonathan said, you can switch modes manually
> with Ins+Z for JAWS and Ins+space for NVDA.
>
> Here is a partial list of when the mode should automatically switch.
>
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/practices/keyboard-interface/#fundamentalkeyboardnavigationconventions
>
> These are elements that require you to manage the focus and it happens to
> map to the same elements that switch modes automatically. (The input
> element is not in that list because it doesn't require focus management but
> it does switch modes.)
> > > > > > > > >


--
Clare O'Keeffe

From: David Farough
Date: Thu, May 18 2023 11:12AM
Subject: Re: automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Clare;
I have been looking into this further.
I have checked prior releases of Jaws.
The release for Jaws 2022 which came out in November 2022 does work as expected with the ARIA tab examples.
I think at this point I will stop using the incremental updates for Jaws and download each new release instead. At least this way I can revert to the previous release if necessary.
I can't help but wonder if the previous update Prior to the April update was broken as well.

Also I looked into the Virtual cursor setting that Robin mentioned for chrome. This did not fix the issue, but it does sound like a handy thing for Chrome users who want to maintain their virtual cursor settings for a particular application.
Thanks
David
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Clare O'Keeffe
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 2:10 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] automatic tab activation sample from ARIA Practices document with current Jaws behaviour

I have auto forms mode set to auto as well, and I get the same experience with ARIA tablists, of not automatically entering forms mode when tabbing to one with JAWS. I just hit Enter when focused on one of the tabs and that triggers forms mode. From there things work as expected. I feel like it has behaved this way for some time for me.

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 1:31 PM David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Thanks for the link.
>
> When I tab to the tabs list I do not hear the sound to indicate the
> switch to focus mode.
> Pressing Insert + z does turn off the virtual cursor,and then I can
> move from tab to tab using the right or left arrow keys. The tab
> panel does change when the focus changes But when tabbing to the
> active panel, I cannot read the content unless I turn on the virtual
> cursor again using insert + z.
> I do have my auto forms mode setting set to auto (the default). .
>
> Maybe it's time to repair Jaws.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> glen walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 12:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] automatic tab activation sample from ARIA
> Practices document with current Jaws behaviour
>
> Both JAWS and NVDA are working ok for me on Chrome and Firefox. I hear
> an audible change when I TAB (key) to the tablist because it
> automatically switches between browse mode and forms mode (or whatever
> your favorite terms are for the two modes). I get the same audible
> sound when tabbing to an input field.
>
> I'm using the default settings in both screen readers which is
> automatic switching between modes. As Jonathan said, you can switch
> modes manually with Ins+Z for JAWS and Ins+space for NVDA.
>
> Here is a partial list of when the mode should automatically switch.
>
> https://www/.
> w3.org%2FWAI%2FARIA%2Fapg%2Fpractices%2Fkeyboard-interface%2F%23fundam
> entalkeyboardnavigationconventions&data%7C01%7Cdavid.farough%40cfp-
> psc.gc.ca%7C79dfcf2ade1941102b3608db570203aa%7C961b30aad4394bc7b6749c4
> a389b0be3%7C0%7C0%7C638199438395945480%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo
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> 7C%7C&sdata=SIQlfUDe7ivW%2BYz3XZxEKjSc7jUMtPGcgYJ6sP6c7PY%3D&reserved> 0
>
> These are elements that require you to manage the focus and it happens
> to map to the same elements that switch modes automatically. (The
> input element is not in that list because it doesn't require focus
> management but it does switch modes.)
> > > http://list/.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdavid.farough%40cfp-psc.gc.ca%7C79dfcf2ad
> e1941102b3608db570203aa%7C961b30aad4394bc7b6749c4a389b0be3%7C0%7C0%7C6
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> rVt7%2B9fD%2B17cFL%2BhxfK6JLqc0P18MCUIVU%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> http://webai/
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cdavid.farough%40cfp-psc.g
> c.ca%7C79dfcf2ade1941102b3608db570203aa%7C961b30aad4394bc7b6749c4a389b
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> &sdata=GXujzWl7xOzWVmiQFNjhvyZYKzYEQ%2Bd%2BE9%2FeBXfF1JQ%3D&reserved=0
> > > > http://list/.
> webaim.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cdavid.farough%40cfp-psc.gc.ca%7C79dfcf2ad
> e1941102b3608db570203aa%7C961b30aad4394bc7b6749c4a389b0be3%7C0%7C0%7C6
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> Xack9yC7E7SdX2dh0KfpTYvqtoOl7y%2BMcI%3D&reserved=0
> List archives at
> http://webai/
> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&data%7C01%7Cdavid.farough%40cfp-psc.g
> c.ca%7C79dfcf2ade1941102b3608db570203aa%7C961b30aad4394bc7b6749c4a389b
> 0be3%7C0%7C0%7C638199438396101678%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C
> &sdata=GXujzWl7xOzWVmiQFNjhvyZYKzYEQ%2Bd%2BE9%2FeBXfF1JQ%3D&reserved=0
> >


--
Clare O'Keeffe