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From: Bart Simons
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2023 6:02AM
Subject: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
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Hello,

We test the accessibility of an iOS app. There are tiles with a relatively long information. You click the tile to perform an action. But the tile also contains a button that triggers a different action such as an "Info" icon that provides more information or an asterisk to mark as favorite.

The developers have grouped the information so that VoiceOver reads the whole tile content in one go and no need for multiple swipe actions to read the tile's content. This is helpful as not to loose context.

But the developers say that they don't know to make the button inside the tile accessible. Ideally it can be reached with the next swipe but developers say they cannot focus a button that is part of a tile that in itself is clickable.

Is there really no way to do that?

They propose to add a custom action to the tile. Swiping down with VoiceOver would then provide access to "more info" or "mark as favorite".

I have a few remarks on this:
VoiceOver announces the existence of custom actions only after reading the relatively long information in the tile. It is very likely that a VoiceOVer user will not listen until the end and thus not discover the message that custom actions are available.

I think that custom actions are meant as shortcuts to provide quick access to actions that also can be performed in another way. Is it acceptable that a function is only available through a custom action?

Do you know of a better soulution to, on the one hand group information in a clickable tile but on the other hand also provide access to a button inside the tile?

Thanks in advance

Bart Simons
AnySurfer - Voor een toegankelijker internet
+32 2210 6149
https://www.anysurfer.be/

From: Dean.Vasile
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2023 6:54AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
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I did not know the answer.
So I asked ChatGPT:

Ensuring accessibility for VoiceOver users is crucial. While I'm not a developer, one potential solution could be to explore making the tile a container that holds both the main content and the button, while ensuring the button is individually accessible. This way, VoiceOver could recognize the button separately, allowing users to navigate directly to it without relying on custom actions.

Developers may consider testing accessibility features like UIAccessibilityContainer to organize content within the tile effectively. This could maintain the grouped information while also allowing direct access to the button.

It's important to align with iOS accessibility guidelines and perhaps consult Apple's accessibility documentation or forums for specific coding guidance on this issue. Continuous collaboration between developers and users during testing can help refine the app's accessibility features.

Dean Vasile


617-799-1162

> On Nov 20, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Bart Simons < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We test the accessibility of an iOS app. There are tiles with a relatively long information. You click the tile to perform an action. But the tile also contains a button that triggers a different action such as an "Info" icon that provides more information or an asterisk to mark as favorite.
>
> The developers have grouped the information so that VoiceOver reads the whole tile content in one go and no need for multiple swipe actions to read the tile's content. This is helpful as not to loose context.
>
> But the developers say that they don't know to make the button inside the tile accessible. Ideally it can be reached with the next swipe but developers say they cannot focus a button that is part of a tile that in itself is clickable.
>
> Is there really no way to do that?
>
> They propose to add a custom action to the tile. Swiping down with VoiceOver would then provide access to "more info" or "mark as favorite".
>
> I have a few remarks on this:
> VoiceOver announces the existence of custom actions only after reading the relatively long information in the tile. It is very likely that a VoiceOVer user will not listen until the end and thus not discover the message that custom actions are available.
>
> I think that custom actions are meant as shortcuts to provide quick access to actions that also can be performed in another way. Is it acceptable that a function is only available through a custom action?
>
> Do you know of a better soulution to, on the one hand group information in a clickable tile but on the other hand also provide access to a button inside the tile?
>
> Thanks in advance

From: Malthe Jepsen
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2023 11:14AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
← Previous message | Next message →

That's an excellent question. For what it's worth I love the flexibility of VoiceOver actions in the rotor, as it minimizes the amount of elements in the focus order, which makes navigation through dynamic content, such as a feed, much more efficient, as it requires les swipes per new item.
I would advocate for including the secondary actions, such as "add to favorites", in the rotor.
Lots of other apps do this, including Apple's own phone and mail apps.
Regarding your question about it being announced late in the reading flow: This is VoiceOver standard behaviour, so hopefully the user will catch it or attempt engaging the rotor. You can also add an accessibility hint to the item in question to emphasize that the rotor can be used here.
Keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion.

Best
Malthe
> On 20 Nov 2023, at 14.02, Bart Simons < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> We test the accessibility of an iOS app. There are tiles with a relatively long information. You click the tile to perform an action. But the tile also contains a button that triggers a different action such as an "Info" icon that provides more information or an asterisk to mark as favorite.
>
> The developers have grouped the information so that VoiceOver reads the whole tile content in one go and no need for multiple swipe actions to read the tile's content. This is helpful as not to loose context.
>
> But the developers say that they don't know to make the button inside the tile accessible. Ideally it can be reached with the next swipe but developers say they cannot focus a button that is part of a tile that in itself is clickable.
>
> Is there really no way to do that?
>
> They propose to add a custom action to the tile. Swiping down with VoiceOver would then provide access to "more info" or "mark as favorite".
>
> I have a few remarks on this:
> VoiceOver announces the existence of custom actions only after reading the relatively long information in the tile. It is very likely that a VoiceOVer user will not listen until the end and thus not discover the message that custom actions are available.
>
> I think that custom actions are meant as shortcuts to provide quick access to actions that also can be performed in another way. Is it acceptable that a function is only available through a custom action?
>
> Do you know of a better soulution to, on the one hand group information in a clickable tile but on the other hand also provide access to a button inside the tile?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Bart Simons
> AnySurfer - Voor een toegankelijker internet
> +32 2210 6149
> https://www.anysurfer.be/
>
>
> > > >

From: Graham Armfield
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2023 5:45AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi All,

I know the discussion so far has focused on Voiceover users and
differentiating between multiple interactive elements. But I'm also
wondering about the experience for keyboard users who have hooked up their
Bluetooth keyboards to their iPhone. How do they differentiate between the
items?

Regards
Graham Armfield
Coolfields Consulting

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023, 6:14 pm Malthe Jepsen, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> That's an excellent question. For what it's worth I love the flexibility
> of VoiceOver actions in the rotor, as it minimizes the amount of elements
> in the focus order, which makes navigation through dynamic content, such as
> a feed, much more efficient, as it requires les swipes per new item.
> I would advocate for including the secondary actions, such as "add to
> favorites", in the rotor.
> Lots of other apps do this, including Apple's own phone and mail apps.
> Regarding your question about it being announced late in the reading flow:
> This is VoiceOver standard behaviour, so hopefully the user will catch it
> or attempt engaging the rotor. You can also add an accessibility hint to
> the item in question to emphasize that the rotor can be used here.
> Keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion.
>
> Best
> Malthe
> > On 20 Nov 2023, at 14.02, Bart Simons < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > We test the accessibility of an iOS app. There are tiles with a
> relatively long information. You click the tile to perform an action. But
> the tile also contains a button that triggers a different action such as an
> "Info" icon that provides more information or an asterisk to mark as
> favorite.
> >
> > The developers have grouped the information so that VoiceOver reads the
> whole tile content in one go and no need for multiple swipe actions to read
> the tile's content. This is helpful as not to loose context.
> >
> > But the developers say that they don't know to make the button inside
> the tile accessible. Ideally it can be reached with the next swipe but
> developers say they cannot focus a button that is part of a tile that in
> itself is clickable.
> >
> > Is there really no way to do that?
> >
> > They propose to add a custom action to the tile. Swiping down with
> VoiceOver would then provide access to "more info" or "mark as favorite".
> >
> > I have a few remarks on this:
> > VoiceOver announces the existence of custom actions only after reading
> the relatively long information in the tile. It is very likely that a
> VoiceOVer user will not listen until the end and thus not discover the
> message that custom actions are available.
> >
> > I think that custom actions are meant as shortcuts to provide quick
> access to actions that also can be performed in another way. Is it
> acceptable that a function is only available through a custom action?
> >
> > Do you know of a better soulution to, on the one hand group information
> in a clickable tile but on the other hand also provide access to a button
> inside the tile?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Bart Simons
> > AnySurfer - Voor een toegankelijker internet
> > +32 2210 6149
> > https://www.anysurfer.be/
> >
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: David Farough
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2023 6:44AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
← Previous message | Next message →

I am only guessing here, but if an additional swipe takes you to the button, then it should be reachable using the right arrow key.

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2023 8:52AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
← Previous message | Next message →

VoiceOver has a "QuickNav" mode where the arrow keys act just like swipe
actions. Does this answer your question?

On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 8:44 AM David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I am only guessing here, but if an additional swipe takes you to the
> button, then it should be reachable using the right arrow key.
>
>

From: Graham Armfield
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2023 7:59AM
Subject: Re: [iOS app] acctivate button inside tile
← Previous message | No next message

That's useful to know, thanks. But I was actually thinking about sighted
keyboard users - how they would get to the full-tile and button interactive
elements in the app with a bluetooth keyboard. Is focus clear on these
things?

It may well be clear, but I ask as the app seemingly has an interactive
element inside another interactive element - like a button inside a link.
This can sometimes be a challenge for keyboard users.

Regards
Graham Armfield



coolfields.co.uk <http://www.coolfields.co.uk/>;
M:07905 590026
T: 01483 856613
@coolfields <https://twitter.com/coolfields>


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On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 at 15:52, Jonathan Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> VoiceOver has a "QuickNav" mode where the arrow keys act just like swipe
> actions. Does this answer your question?
>
> On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 8:44 AM David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I am only guessing here, but if an additional swipe takes you to the
> > button, then it should be reachable using the right arrow key.
> >
> >