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Thread: RE: 508 and "nice to have" items
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Bryce.Fields@kyvu.org
Date: Mon, Aug 11 2003 1:31PM
Subject: RE: 508 and "nice to have" items
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From my understanding, accessibility is just as much (if not more) about
retrieving the information available on the site as it is about being able
to access a site's functionality. If the Flash files are on the site, an
alternate, equivalent means of accessing their information should be made
available. If it's "nice to have" for a sighted person, it's "nice to have"
for the visually impaired also.
Bryce Fields
Web Developer
Kentucky Virtual University
http://www.kyvu.org/
1-877-740-4357
1-502-573-1555 ext 288
"Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
-----Original Message-----
From: Birdsell, John [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:42 AM
To: Webaim-Forum (E-mail)
Subject: 508 and "nice to have" items
I have a page that contains links to 3 informational flash videos. These
videos have no functional value on the page. They are "nice to have" items.
Now, not all departments that have access to this page allow flash files to
be viewed behind there firewalls.
I have informed folks that the videos are not compliant, and what it would
take to make them compliant. The question was posed: Since they do not
affect the functionality of the page used to access them, and not all users
can view them, can the page with there links be deemed compliant and do they
have to be compliant?
Comments?
Thank you.
Jay Birdsell
Northrop Grumman IT
Web Developer
202 - 927 - 6218
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From: Gerard Corboz
Date: Wed, Aug 13 2003 8:01PM
Subject: Accessibility of Tagged Acrobat PDFs
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I would like to know if anyone has experience with trying to make Acrobat
PDF documents and forms accessible.
What I'm interested in finding out is if whether or not Adobe's claims that
Acrobat is accessible are accurate or just marketing fluff.
Regards
Gerard Corboz
---------
Perform
Information Design Solutions
ph: 6214 0968
fax: 6214 0964
mobile: 0402 236 358
http://www.perform.net.au
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From: Dey Alexander
Date: Wed, Aug 13 2003 10:22PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of Tagged Acrobat PDFs
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Hi Gerard,
Given that you're located in Australia, the following information is
relevant:
Source: Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission
<http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.html#s2_3>;
"The Portable Document Format (PDF) file system developed by Adobe has
become widely used for making documents available on web pages. Despite
considerable work done by Adobe, PDF remains a relatively inaccessible
format to people who are blind or vision-impaired. Software exists to
provide some access to the text of some PDF documents, but for a PDF
document to be accessible to this software, it must be prepared in
accordance with the guidelines that Adobe have developed. Even when
these guidelines are followed, the resulting document will only be
accessible to those people who have the required software and the skills
to use it. The Commission's view is that organisations who distribute
content only in PDF format, and who do not also make this content
available in another format such as RTF, HTML, or plain text, are liable
for complaints under the DDA. Where an alternative file format is
provided, care should be taken to ensure that it is the same version of
the content as the PDF version, and that it is downloadable by the user
as a single document, just as the PDF version is downloaded as a single
file."
I spoke to one of their disability advisors around the time of the
release of Acrobat 6 and he advised that HREOC would be unlikely to
revise their position, as stated above.
Cheers,
Dey
Gerard Corboz wrote:
> I would like to know if anyone has experience with trying to make Acrobat
> PDF documents and forms accessible.
>
> What I'm interested in finding out is if whether or not Adobe's claims that
> Acrobat is accessible are accurate or just marketing fluff.
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2003 9:07AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of Tagged Acrobat PDFs
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Gerard,
Adobe PDF can be more accessible through the use of tagged text and other
techniques. One of the limitations is for people with visual imapriments
being able to change font families and have access to text equivalents for
graphic objects.
In general it is best to have a alternative to the PDF that uses an
alternative format to fill in the accessibility gaps of PDF.
Jon
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Gerard Corboz wrote:
> I would like to know if anyone has experience with trying to make Acrobat
> PDF documents and forms accessible.
>
> What I'm interested in finding out is if whether or not Adobe's claims that
> Acrobat is accessible are accurate or just marketing fluff.
>
> Regards
>
> Gerard Corboz
> ---------
> Perform
> Information Design Solutions
> ph: 6214 0968
> fax: 6214 0964
> mobile: 0402 236 358
> http://www.perform.net.au
> Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
> ---------
>
> Important
>
> The information transmitted in this email is for the use of the intended
> recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> material. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the
> sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments
> is prohibited without the consent of the sender.
>
>
> ----
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> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
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From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2003 10:01AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of Tagged Acrobat PDFs
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Jon,
You mean for people who are visually impaired but not blind who want to turn
images off to get access to the text equivalent for images, yes?
Acrobat Reader 5 and Adobe Reader 6 have some nice features for scaling
text. Both players allow the text to reflow like HTML can so when you set
the zoom to 300%, the text can still be on screen. The readers also allow
users to set text color and background preferences.
For use with screen readers, PDF does very well, but some of the limitations
of MSAA are problems for PDF (e.g. You can tag a pdf with headers like n an
html document, but they are not passed through to the screen reader by
MSAA). This is also a problem with Flash.
I agree with the idea that having an alternative to the PDF is the way to
go...
AWK
On 8/14/03 11:04 AM, "Jon Gunderson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Gerard,
>
> Adobe PDF can be more accessible through the use of tagged text and other
> techniques. One of the limitations is for people with visual imapriments
> being able to change font families and have access to text equivalents for
> graphic objects.
>
> In general it is best to have a alternative to the PDF that uses an
> alternative format to fill in the accessibility gaps of PDF.
>
> Jon
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Gerard Corboz wrote:
>
>> I would like to know if anyone has experience with trying to make Acrobat
>> PDF documents and forms accessible.
>>
>> What I'm interested in finding out is if whether or not Adobe's claims that
>> Acrobat is accessible are accurate or just marketing fluff.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Gerard Corboz
>> ---------
>> Perform
>> Information Design Solutions
>> ph: 6214 0968
>> fax: 6214 0964
>> mobile: 0402 236 358
>> http://www.perform.net.au
>> Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
>> ---------
>>
>> Important
>>
>> The information transmitted in this email is for the use of the intended
>> recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
>> material. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the
>> sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments
>> is prohibited without the consent of the sender.
>>
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
--
Andrew Kirkpatrick
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)
WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2003 11:25AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of Tagged Acrobat PDFs
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On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
> Jon,
> You mean for people who are visually impaired but not blind who want to turn
> images off to get access to the text equivalent for images, yes?
Right
>
> Acrobat Reader 5 and Adobe Reader 6 have some nice features for scaling
> text. Both players allow the text to reflow like HTML can so when you set
> the zoom to 300%, the text can still be on screen. The readers also allow
> users to set text color and background preferences.
>
> For use with screen readers, PDF does very well, but some of the limitations
> of MSAA are problems for PDF (e.g. You can tag a pdf with headers like n an
> html document, but they are not passed through to the screen reader by
> MSAA). This is also a problem with Flash.
>
> I agree with the idea that having an alternative to the PDF is the way to
> go...
>
> AWK
>
> On 8/14/03 11:04 AM, "Jon Gunderson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Gerard,
> >
> > Adobe PDF can be more accessible through the use of tagged text and other
> > techniques. One of the limitations is for people with visual imapriments
> > being able to change font families and have access to text equivalents for
> > graphic objects.
> >
> > In general it is best to have a alternative to the PDF that uses an
> > alternative format to fill in the accessibility gaps of PDF.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Gerard Corboz wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to know if anyone has experience with trying to make Acrobat
> >> PDF documents and forms accessible.
> >>
> >> What I'm interested in finding out is if whether or not Adobe's claims that
> >> Acrobat is accessible are accurate or just marketing fluff.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Gerard Corboz
> >> ---------
> >> Perform
> >> Information Design Solutions
> >> ph: 6214 0968
> >> fax: 6214 0964
> >> mobile: 0402 236 358
> >> http://www.perform.net.au
> >> Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
> >> ---------
> >>
> >> Important
> >>
> >> The information transmitted in this email is for the use of the intended
> >> recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> >> material. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the
> >> sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments
> >> is prohibited without the consent of the sender.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> >> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >>
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
> 125 Western Ave.
> Boston, MA 02134
> E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
>
> 617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
> 617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
> 617-300-2489 (TTY)
>
> WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
> inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
> learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.
>
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
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From: Gerard Corboz
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2003 5:50PM
Subject: Eforms and Accessability
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I would like to know what everyone's thoughts are in regards to electronic
forms and accessibility.
Is it the grand consensus that if you want to deliver Eforms in an
accessible way that you must rely on HTML or are there are other
technologies that are accessible and usable?
Regards
Gerard Corboz
---------
Perform
Information Design Solutions
ph: 6214 0968
fax: 6214 0964
mobile: 0402 236 358
http://www.perform.net.au
Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
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sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments
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From: Ben Morrison
Date: Fri, Aug 15 2003 9:37AM
Subject: Re: Eforms and Accessability
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On 15/8/03 12:41 am, "Gerard Corboz" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I would like to know what everyone's thoughts are in regards to electronic
> forms and accessibility.
>
> Is it the grand consensus that if you want to deliver Eforms in an
> accessible way that you must rely on HTML or are there are other
> technologies that are accessible and usable?
>
>
> Regards
Is this what you are after?
http://www.webaim.org/howto/forms/index
ben
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From: Gerard Corboz
Date: Sun, Aug 17 2003 5:47PM
Subject: Re: Eforms and Accessability
← Previous message | Next message →
> Is this what you are after?
>
> http://www.webaim.org/howto/forms/index
Although this page is a great source of information about providing HTML
forms in an accessible way what information I was after was:
> ... are there are other
> technologies that are accessible and usable?
Regards
Gerard Corboz
---------
Perform
Information Design Solutions
ph: 6214 0968
fax: 6214 0964
mobile: 0402 236 358
http://www.perform.net.au
Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
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From: chris
Date: Mon, Aug 18 2003 12:41PM
Subject: RE: Eforms and Accessability
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Hi Gerard,
I read your post a couple times and I read the question differently each
time:
The first time I thought you might be asking if there were a more accessible
method for outputting html forms -
So, here's my response to that:
HTML is the most common final output to browsers regardless of how it is
output-
1. I can handcode a static html form
2. I can use php/asp/javascript/jsp/xslt to output html form elements that
are dependent upon some action the user takes
The second time I read your question, I realized you might be asking if
there are other markup languages that are more accessible than html?
In which case, there are other markup languages that have specific purposes
- for example, WML (wireless markup language), SVG (for graphics), docbook
(for creating technical documentation) -but HTML (which is transitioning
into xml sometime in the next decade) is specifically for viewing data in a
web browser. If I am using an xml data format, then I can use xslt to
output the same data in html, wml, etc... (hence all the buzz over xslt)
I hope that helps?
-chris
--> -----Original Message-----
--> From: Gerard Corboz [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
--> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 4:42 PM
--> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
--> Subject: Eforms and Accessability
-->
-->
--> I would like to know what everyone's thoughts are in
--> regards to electronic
--> forms and accessibility.
-->
--> Is it the grand consensus that if you want to deliver Eforms in an
--> accessible way that you must rely on HTML or are there are other
--> technologies that are accessible and usable?
-->
-->
--> Regards
-->
--> Gerard Corboz
--> ---------
--> Perform
--> Information Design Solutions
--> ph: 6214 0968
--> fax: 6214 0964
--> mobile: 0402 236 358
--> http://www.perform.net.au
--> Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
--> ---------
-->
--> Important
-->
--> The information transmitted in this email is for the use of
--> the intended
--> recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally
--> privileged
--> material. If received in error, please delete all copies
--> and advise the
--> sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or
--> its attachments
--> is prohibited without the consent of the sender.
-->
-->
--> ----
--> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
--> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
-->
-->
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