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Thread: navigating applets
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From: Shane Anderson
Date: Wed, Jul 07 2004 5:34AM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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-----Original Message-----
Subject: [WebAIM] no subject
Giacomo asked:
Can an html page with an applet be accessible with respect to keyboard navigation ?
Answer:
I have tried making this possible for quite some time now but it is not always possible. A work-around is to have a link to the applet where a new window pops up and only the applet is in the window. This way the applet gets focus. I am not sure how well this works across browsers and platforms.
Also to note about applets. Applets can only be implemented successfully (across platforms and browsers) using the applet tag which is depricated unless it is compiled using java1 compilers. This is due to IEs inability to use non MS JVMs when the object tag is used.
As a general rule applets should not be used for functionality which can be accomplished using other Web technologies. This has nothing to do with accessibility but rather the problems which arise because of the VM versioning problems.
With all that said I am not against applets. They provide great options but they are not robust. They are effectively used in environments where there exists some control over the users computer (e.g. a company intranet).
Shane Anderson
Programmer Analyst
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
From: liza.zamboglou
Date: Wed, Jul 07 2004 5:57AM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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So what happens when you have a web-based application which MSUT be
accessible - like an Oracle Form running in a browser window (IE6.0) -
how do you cater for accessibility here if its web based ???
Not sure which set of WAI guidelines should it adhere to ?? WCAG or
UAAG ??
Any ideas on the subject ?
Liza
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 07 July 2004 12:39
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] navigating applets
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-----Original Message-----
Subject: [WebAIM] no subject
Giacomo asked:
Can an html page with an applet be accessible with respect to keyboard
navigation ?
Answer:
I have tried making this possible for quite some time now but it is not
always possible. A work-around is to have a link to the applet where a
new window pops up and only the applet is in the window. This way the
applet gets focus. I am not sure how well this works across browsers and
platforms.
Also to note about applets. Applets can only be implemented successfully
(across platforms and browsers) using the applet tag which is depricated
unless it is compiled using java1 compilers. This is due to IEs
inability to use non MS JVMs when the object tag is used.
As a general rule applets should not be used for functionality which can
be accomplished using other Web technologies. This has nothing to do
with accessibility but rather the problems which arise because of the VM
versioning problems.
With all that said I am not against applets. They provide great options
but they are not robust. They are effectively used in environments where
there exists some control over the users computer (e.g. a company
intranet).
Shane Anderson
Programmer Analyst
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
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From: Sandy Clark
Date: Wed, Jul 07 2004 6:06AM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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I asked this question a while back and I got a reply from someone at Oracle.
Conversation below
--------------------
Oracle Forms 6i runtime is accessible while both the builder and runtime is
accessible in Forms 9i.
We have a link to a 'Forms Applications White Paper' at
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/
The direct link to the white paper is
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/apps02.html
Any questions about accessibility at Oracle can be sent to
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
----------------------------------
Applications developed with forms can certainly meet the standards of
section 508. Rather than 1194.22 which really applies to Web pages and HTML
applications, Forms can be coded to meet 1194.21 - Software Applications and
Operating Systems. Obviously, as you say this involves following the coding
standards white paper. Indeed, much of Oracle Applications is coded in Forms
(albeit version 6i) - for which VPATs are available on the Oracle website.
Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eire OConnor [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 8:00 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] navigating applets
So what happens when you have a web-based application which MSUT be
accessible - like an Oracle Form running in a browser window (IE6.0) - how
do you cater for accessibility here if its web based ???
Not sure which set of WAI guidelines should it adhere to ?? WCAG or UAAG ??
Any ideas on the subject ?
Liza
From: liza.zamboglou
Date: Wed, Jul 07 2004 6:14AM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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Thanks for that !!
-----Original Message-----
From: sllists [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 07 July 2004 13:08
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] navigating applets
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I asked this question a while back and I got a reply from someone at
Oracle.
Conversation below
--------------------
Oracle Forms 6i runtime is accessible while both the builder and runtime
is
accessible in Forms 9i.
We have a link to a 'Forms Applications White Paper' at
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/
The direct link to the white paper is
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/apps02.html
Any questions about accessibility at Oracle can be sent to
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
----------------------------------
Applications developed with forms can certainly meet the standards of
section 508. Rather than 1194.22 which really applies to Web pages and
HTML
applications, Forms can be coded to meet 1194.21 - Software Applications
and
Operating Systems. Obviously, as you say this involves following the
coding
standards white paper. Indeed, much of Oracle Applications is coded in
Forms
(albeit version 6i) - for which VPATs are available on the Oracle
website.
Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eire OConnor [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 8:00 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] navigating applets
So what happens when you have a web-based application which MSUT be
accessible - like an Oracle Form running in a browser window (IE6.0) -
how
do you cater for accessibility here if its web based ???
Not sure which set of WAI guidelines should it adhere to ?? WCAG or
UAAG ??
Any ideas on the subject ?
Liza
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To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET.
On entering the GSi, this email was scanned for viruses by the
Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied
exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs.
Please see
http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/notices/information/gsi-003-2002.pdf for
further details.
In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk
The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs.
On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free
From: Shane Anderson
Date: Wed, Jul 07 2004 9:53AM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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-----Original Message-----
Liza asked:
So what happens when you have a web-based application which MSUT be
accessible - like an Oracle Form running in a browser window (IE6.0) -
how do you cater for accessibility here if its web based ???
Not sure which set of WAI guidelines should it adhere to ?? WCAG or
UAAG ??
Any ideas on the subject ?
My answer:
I am not completely familiar with Oracle Forms but the basic principles still apply. Can the user access the content via the keyboard? Can assistive technologies get at the content?
I have talked to people at Oracle and know that they have worked hard to make their products as accessible as possible.
Now regarding the feedback Oracle sent by sllists:
I asked this question a while back and I got a reply from someone at Oracle..
Conversation below
--------------------
Oracle Forms 6i runtime is accessible while both the builder and runtime is
accessible in Forms 9i.
We have a link to a 'Forms Applications White Paper' at
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/
The direct link to the white paper is
http://www.oracle.com/accessibility/apps02.html
Any questions about accessibility at Oracle can be sent to
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
My comment on this:
I will assume that there is a context here that is not included in this email, because there needs to be some clarificaiton. The claim that "Oracle Forms 6i runtime is accessible" means nothing. Its like saying HTML is accessible. Reading the white papers it is made clear that Oracle forms can be made accessible IF (big IF here) the developer uses the principles set out by Oracle and IF (another big IF) the users computer is properly configured (e.g. the java access bridge must be installed for screen reader users). Technologies like java and flash are not yet robust enough for all users. That does not mean that you don't use the technologies, it means that the user's experience should not be limited to the technologies that are difficult or impossible for them to use. Quoting myself: "They (applets) are effectively used in environments where there exists some control over the users computer (e.g. a company intranet)."
The other oricle feedback email:
Applications developed with forms can certainly meet the standards of
section 508. Rather than 1194.22 which really applies to Web pages and HTML
applications, Forms can be coded to meet 1194.21 - Software Applications and
Operating Systems. Obviously, as you say this involves following the coding
standards white paper. Indeed, much of Oracle Applications is coded in Forms
(albeit version 6i) - for which VPATs are available on the Oracle website.
Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions.
My comment on this:
Here again there needs to be some clarification. It is true that applets do need to meet 1194.21, see 1194.22(m). The ability to access the applet, while not explicitly required, is needed for any "real" accessibility. I am unaware of a method for accessing applets via keyboard surrounded by HTML content. If anyone knows of a way to do it please let everyone know.
Shane Anderson
Programmer Analyst
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
From: Giacomo Mazzocato
Date: Fri, Jul 09 2004 9:48PM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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Thanks for your help
From: Shane Anderson
Date: Tue, Jul 13 2004 4:28PM
Subject: Re: navigating applets
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Giacomo
You may want to post your question to a Java accessibility related forum or
the Java access listserv (a very helpful resource).
forum url: http://forum.java.sun.com/
listserv url: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/java-access.html
I have posted similar questions before with no luck, but it has been a
while and it never hurts to try again. Maybe someone has found a good solution.
Good luck.
Shane Anderson
WebAIM.org
At 09:48 PM 7/9/2004, you wrote:
>Thanks for your help
>
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