E-mail List Archives
Thread: Netscape and screen readers
Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)
From: Harlan, Jane E.
Date: Thu, Apr 28 2005 9:11AM
Subject: Netscape and screen readers
No previous message | Next message →
Hello, Can anyone tell me how to solve this problem? Im using Dreamweaver to create some pages and testing their accessibility by screen readers using a demo copy of WindowEyes. When previewing the pages in I.E., it works well: the screen reader reads the text through, including the alt text. In Netscape however, it doesnt read anything past the name of the document without manually using the arrow key or mouse. In addition, none of the alt text is picked up.
Perhaps this is a clue?: Looking at my pages on the screen (with or without using WindowEyes), the alt text is not visible on mouse-over in Netscape, although it is in I.E..
Thanks,
Jane
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Apr 28 2005 9:42AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
>Harlan, Jane E.
>> WindowEyes [...] In Netscape however, it doesn't read anything past
>> the name of the document without manually using the arrow key or mouse.
I suspect the main problem could be that Netscape is not supported by
Windows Eyes (although http://www.gwmicro.com/products/index.php?prod=wereadme
mentions Mozilla).
>> Looking at my pages on the screen (with or without using WindowEyes),
>> the alt text is not visible on mouse-over in Netscape, although it is
>> in I.E..
That's actually the correct behaviour. Nowhere in the HTML specification
does it say that browsers *must* expose ALT attributes as tooltips. IE
chose to do it, but Netscape (from version 6 onwards, I think), Mozilla,
Firefox and Opera don't.
In short, you may be seeing problems where there are in fact none.
Patrick
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
From: Jim Allan
Date: Thu, Apr 28 2005 10:08AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
Screen readers for Windows work with IE. They use either the IE document object model (DOM) or Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA) to navigate a page. As Netscape has neither of these, screen readers cannot automatically navigate the page, nor get a list of headings, nor use a host of other tools provided by the screen reader. Screen reader users do not use Netscape, because screen readers don't work with it. There may be movement in the screen reader field to begin work on working with the mozilla family of browsers...though a quick check of the JAWS and GWMicro sites shows no evidence of this. One hopes and hears rumors.
Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"I see the Earth. It is so beautiful."--first words spoken by human in space.
[Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, from the Vostok 1, April 12, 1961.]
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Harlan, Jane E.
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:11 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Netscape and screen readers
Hello, Can anyone tell me how to solve this problem? Im using Dreamweaver to create some pages and testing their accessibility by screen readers using a demo copy of WindowEyes. When previewing the pages in I.E., it works well: the screen reader reads the text through, including the alt text. In Netscape however, it doesnt read anything past the name of the document without manually using the arrow key or mouse. In addition, none of the alt text is picked up.
Perhaps this is a clue?: Looking at my pages on the screen (with or without using WindowEyes), the alt text is not visible on mouse-over in Netscape, although it is in I.E..
Thanks,
Jane
From: sean keegan
Date: Thu, Apr 28 2005 2:30PM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
> One hopes and hears rumors.
I always enjoy a good rumor. However, I did find some information on the GW Micro website, and all it says is:
Mozilla
Window-Eyes 5.0 is proud to be the first screen reader to include robust support for the Mozilla web browser, a popular alternative to Internet Explorer.
I believe the support was to be for Mozilla 1.8x, but all I can find on the Mozilla.org website are public releases of 1.7.7, so I am guessing that the Window-Eyes support for Mozilla 1.8x is for those individuals comfortable with betas.
Sean Keegan
Web Accessibility Instructor
High Tech Center Training Unit for the
California Community Colleges
Cupertino, CA
408.996.6044
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Allan [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:09 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Netscape and screen readers
Screen readers for Windows work with IE. They use either the IE document object model (DOM) or Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA) to navigate a page. As Netscape has neither of these, screen readers cannot automatically navigate the page, nor get a list of headings, nor use a host of other tools provided by the screen reader. Screen reader users do not use Netscape, because screen readers don't work with it. There may be movement in the screen reader field to begin work on working with the mozilla family of browsers...though a quick check of the JAWS and GWMicro sites shows no evidence of this. One hopes and hears rumors.
Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"I see the Earth. It is so beautiful."--first words spoken by human in space.
[Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, from the Vostok 1, April 12, 1961.]
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Harlan, Jane E.
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:11 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Netscape and screen readers
Hello, Can anyone tell me how to solve this problem? Im using Dreamweaver to create some pages and testing their accessibility by screen readers using a demo copy of WindowEyes. When previewing the pages in I.E., it works well: the screen reader reads the text through, including the alt text. In Netscape however, it doesnt read anything past the name of the document without manually using the arrow key or mouse. In addition, none of the alt text is picked up.
Perhaps this is a clue?: Looking at my pages on the screen (with or without using WindowEyes), the alt text is not visible on mouse-over in Netscape, although it is in I.E..
Thanks,
Jane
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Thu, Apr 28 2005 5:41PM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
Jim wrote:
>>Screen reader users do not use Netscape, because screen readers don't work
with it.
Jaws 6.0 does have limited support for Netscaope browsers, (but only up to
Netscape version 4.5), which is not much use really...
>>There may be movement in the screen reader field to begin work on working
with the Mozilla family of browsers...
Not by freedom scientific, but independent work is being done
JAWS Screen Reader Adaptation for Mozilla Firefox
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/s2s/latest/jaws1/home/index.shtml
For window eyes:
Mozilla + Window-Eyes Compatibility Page
http://www.mozilla.org/access/windows/window-eyes
with regards
Steven Faulkner
Web Accessibility Consultant
National Information & Library Service (NILS)
454 Glenferrie Road
Kooyong Victoria 3144
Phone: (613) 9864 9281
Fax: (613) 9864 9210
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
National Information Library Service
A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Jim Allan
Sent: Friday, 29 April 2005 2:09 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Netscape and screen readers
Screen readers for Windows work with IE. They use either the IE document
object model (DOM) or Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA) to navigate a
page. As Netscape has neither of these, screen readers cannot automatically
navigate the page, nor get a list of headings, nor use a host of other tools
provided by the screen reader. Screen reader users do not use Netscape,
because screen readers don't work with it. There may be movement in the
screen reader field to begin work on working with the mozilla family of
browsers...though a quick check of the JAWS and GWMicro sites shows no
evidence of this. One hopes and hears rumors.
Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"I see the Earth. It is so beautiful."--first words spoken by human in
space.
[Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin, from the Vostok 1, April 12, 1961.]
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Harlan, Jane E.
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:11 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Netscape and screen readers
Hello, Can anyone tell me how to solve this problem? I'm using Dreamweaver
to create some pages and testing their accessibility by screen readers using
a demo copy of WindowEyes. When previewing the pages in I.E., it works well:
the screen reader reads the text through, including the alt text. In
Netscape however, it doesn't read anything past the name of the document
without manually using the arrow key or mouse. In addition, none of the alt
text is picked up.
Perhaps this is a clue?: Looking at my pages on the screen (with or without
using WindowEyes), the alt text is not visible on mouse-over in Netscape,
although it is in I.E..
Thanks,
Jane
From: John Foliot - WATS.ca
Date: Fri, Apr 29 2005 5:58AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
Jim Allan wrote:
>> Screen readers for Windows work with IE. They use either the IE
>> document object model (DOM) or Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA)
>> to navigate a page. As Netscape has neither of these, screen readers
>> cannot automatically navigate the page, nor get a list of headings,
>> nor use a host of other tools provided by the screen reader. Screen
>> reader users do not use Netscape, because screen readers don't work
>> with it. There may be movement in the screen reader field to begin
>> work on working with the mozilla family of browsers...though a quick
>> check of the JAWS and GWMicro sites shows no evidence of this. One
>> hopes and hears rumors.
>>
That work has in fact already begun; please see:
http://www.wats.ca/articles/firefoxandjaws/71
As well, one of the students who worked on that project contacted me
recently to announce a new Mozilla Extension: Fire Vox, a new screen reading
tool for Firefox.
According to it's author, it is "an extension that transforms Firefox into a
self-voiced talking browser that does NOT require a separate screen reader
such as JAWS. The only requirements are SAPI 5 (included in Windows 2000 and
Windows XP) and Firefox. Like other tools such as JAWS, it will do more than
just read the content on a web page. It also identifies elements (headings,
links, images, etc), provides support for form controls (echoes keys as they
are typed, identifies if radio buttons/checkboxes are checked or not, etc),
reads the menus on the browser and JavaScript alert boxes, and gives quick
access to the various elements via lists of headings, links, images, form
elements, access keys, and frames on a page. Unlike JAWS, Fire Vox also
supports MathML objects embedded on a page and it's a freeware, open source
project."
Given current time restraints, I have not had a chance to test this
extensively, although it shows promise. More information regarding this
work may be found at the author's website: http://clc-4-tts.cjb.net/ (Kudos
to you Charles!)
JF
--
John Foliot = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca
Phone: 1-613-267-1983 / 1-866-932-4878 (North America)
From: Cheryl D Wise
Date: Fri, Apr 29 2005 7:42AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
John,
Thanks for posting the information about Fire Vox.
Cheryl D. Wise
Certified Professional Web Developer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://wiserways.com
http://starttoweb.com - Next Class Session Starts May 1, 2005
Office: 713-353-0139
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Fri, Apr 29 2005 7:45AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
>John,
>>
>> Thanks for posting the information about Fire Vox.
How do you use it? All it does here is show an "options" entry in the
tools menu and crashes when you select that one
-- Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
From: Randy Pearson
Date: Fri, Apr 29 2005 8:43AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
I believe Mozilla.org has ceased development of the Mozilla browser. Maybe
they have migrated this screen-reader development to operate with FireFox?
Otherwise this would be a dead end.
-- Randy
________________________________
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of sean keegan
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:30 PM
I always enjoy a good rumor. However, I did find some information
on the GW Micro website, and all it says is:
"Mozilla
Window-Eyes 5.0 is proud to be the first screen reader to include
robust support for the Mozilla web browser, a popular alternative to
Internet Explorer."
I believe the support was to be for Mozilla 1.8x, but all I can find
on the Mozilla.org website are public releases of 1.7.7, so I am guessing
that the Window-Eyes support for Mozilla 1.8x is for those individuals
comfortable with betas.
From: Robinson, Norman B - Washington, DC
Date: Fri, Apr 29 2005 10:11AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | Next message →
No, development still continues, although only on the test
version (currently 1.8a6). Visit http://www.mozilla.org/access/features
for more information. Basically, you can expect them to focus more on
Firefox development only and to keep the separate parts of "Mozilla" in
the respective products such as Firefox (browser), Thunderbird (email)
and Sunbird (calendaring) instead of one application that performs
all-in-one functions. Visit http://www.mozilla.org/products/ for more
information.
I just hope end-users who can contribute and screen-reader
manufacturers continue to support these products.
You can view the current information regarding Window-Eyes
compatibility on http://www.mozilla.org/access/windows/window-eyes.
There is some information on JAWS for Mozilla on
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/s2s/latest/jaws1/home/index.shtml.
Happy computing,
Norman
From: John Foliot - WATS.ca
Date: Tue, May 03 2005 6:57AM
Subject: RE: Netscape and screen readers
← Previous message | No next message
Christian Heilmann wrote:
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for posting the information about Fire Vox.
>
>>
>> How do you use it? All it does here is show an "options" entry in the
>> tools menu and crashes when you select that one
Chris,
Please read the information posted at the Fire Vox website
(https://webspace.utexas.edu/chencl1/clc-4-tts/clc-firevox_doc.html). All
"navigation" is done via keyboard keystroke combinations. Remember too that
this is a beta - best bet is to forward questions and/or bugs to the author,
Charles Chen, directly.
JF