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Thread: include files and skip navigation link
Number of posts in this thread: 21 (In chronological order)
From: karen guo
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 11:33AM
Subject: include files and skip navigation link
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Hi,
I'm testing this page with screen readers.
http://www.tc.edu/oasid/style-b/services/servicesaccommodations.html
And here's my question:
Our Jaws 6.0 doesn't read the header area at all: the skip navigation link, the two school logos, the school navigation bar or the office navigation bar. Window Eyes seems to read everything properly except the skip navigation link. What's wrong with the skip navigation link? Are include files accessible?
Regards,
Karen Guo
---------------------------------
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From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 12:07PM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
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Hi Karen,
> What's wrong with the skip navigation link?
The problem is that your skip link has style "display:none" and that does
exactly what it says.
Jim
Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
512-306-0931
From: Bryce Fields
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 2:16PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
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On 7/26/05, Jim Thatcher < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Karen,
>
>
>
> > What's wrong with the skip navigation link?
>
>
>
> The problem is that your skip link has style "display:none" and that does
> exactly what it says.
>
Good information on the use of display:none and screen readers can be
found in this A List Apart article on Fahrner Image Replacement:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/
--
Bryce Fields, Webmaster
Where I Work: Kentucky Council on Postsecondary Education
Where I Play: www.royalrodent.com
"Do or do not! There is no try!" -- Yoda
From: Chris Price
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 3:57PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
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On 26/7/05 6:34 pm, "karen guo" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Are include files accessible?
Include files are merely part of the process of putting the page together on
the server side. Once the page is served, includes are history.
--
Chris Price
Choctaw
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.choctaw.co.uk
From: karen guo
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 4:38PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
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Thanks to everyone for advice. How do I make Jaws
read the header area then?
karen
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From: Rob Unsworth
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 5:02PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
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On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, karen guo wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for advice. How do I make Jaws
> read the header area then?
This works, also with tab.
#skipnav {
position: absolute;
top: 0;
left: -1500px;
}
#skipnav a:focus, #skipnav a:active {
display:block;
position:absolute;
top:30px;
left:1595px;
width:10em;
height:1.5em;
font-size: .9em;
color:#460046;
background:#ffefaf;
padding:.2em;
text-align:center;
border:2px solid #460046;
}
--
Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3
Rob Unsworth | IT & Internet Chairman
Ipswich, Australia | http://www.lionsq3.asn.au
-------------------------------------------------
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 5:14PM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Bob,
Mind if I borrow that too? One question tho, why aren't browser safe
colours used?
Cheers,
Glenda
Glenda Watson Hyatt, Principal
Soaring Eagle Communications
Accessible websites. Accessible content. Accessible solutions.
www.webaccessibility.biz
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Rob Unsworth
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 4:08 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] include files and skip navigation link
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, karen guo wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for advice. How do I make Jaws
> read the header area then?
This works, also with tab.
#skipnav {
position: absolute;
top: 0;
left: -1500px;
}
#skipnav a:focus, #skipnav a:active {
display:block;
position:absolute;
top:30px;
left:1595px;
width:10em;
height:1.5em;
font-size: .9em;
color:#460046;
background:#ffefaf;
padding:.2em;
text-align:center;
border:2px solid #460046;
}
--
Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3
Rob Unsworth | IT & Internet Chairman
Ipswich, Australia | http://www.lionsq3.asn.au
-------------------------------------------------
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From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 5:51PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
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I'm a bit of a novice, so forgive me if I miss something very
elementary, but won't that CSS make the #skipnav invisible to everyone?
I thought part of the function of skip navigation links was to enable
people with disabilities not sight-related to skip a long list of
navigational links too.
I guess this would not make it inaccessible, but it would make it harder
to find, it seems.
Don Hinshaw
Rob Unsworth wrote:
>#skipnav {
> position: absolute;
> top: 0;
> left: -1500px;
>}
>#skipnav a:focus, #skipnav a:active {
> display:block;
> position:absolute;
> top:30px;
> left:1595px;
> width:10em;
> height:1.5em;
> font-size: .9em;
> color:#460046;
> background:#ffefaf;
> padding:.2em;
> text-align:center;
> border:2px solid #460046;
>}
>
>
>
>
> This works, also with tab.
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 5:56PM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Don,
Try tabbing through - it appears. I'm just playing with it too. I think
it's better than what I currently have on my own site.
Cheers,
Glenda
Glenda Watson Hyatt, Principal
Soaring Eagle Communications
Accessible websites. Accessible content. Accessible solutions.
www.webaccessibility.biz
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Don Hinshaw
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 4:55 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] include files and skip navigation link
I'm a bit of a novice, so forgive me if I miss something very
elementary, but won't that CSS make the #skipnav invisible to everyone?
I thought part of the function of skip navigation links was to enable
people with disabilities not sight-related to skip a long list of
navigational links too.
I guess this would not make it inaccessible, but it would make it harder
to find, it seems.
Don Hinshaw
Rob Unsworth wrote:
>#skipnav {
> position: absolute;
> top: 0;
> left: -1500px;
>}
>#skipnav a:focus, #skipnav a:active {
> display:block;
> position:absolute;
> top:30px;
> left:1595px;
> width:10em;
> height:1.5em;
> font-size: .9em;
> color:#460046;
> background:#ffefaf;
> padding:.2em;
> text-align:center;
> border:2px solid #460046;
>}
>
>
>
>
> This works, also with tab.
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
--
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 6:44PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
> Try tabbing through - it appears. I'm just playing with it too. I think
> it's better than what I currently have on my own site.
If, on top of :focus and :active, you also apply the rule to the :hover
state, the skip link also becomes visible (depending on your HTML, of
course) if you move the mouse to where its block. See for instance what
I did for Molly's site www.molly.com (try tabbing as well as moving the
mouse to the top of the page), a variation of a very early experiment of
mine http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/21/ (dated September 2003
... time flies).
--
Patrick H. Lauke
___________
re
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 6:50PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
That's cool also. How would you envision the hover state being used (in
conjunction with Skip Navigation, that is)?
Don
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
>
> If, on top of :focus and :active, you also apply the rule to the
> :hover state, the skip link also becomes visible (depending on your
> HTML, of course) if you move the mouse to where its block. See for
> instance what I did for Molly's site www.molly.com (try tabbing as
> well as moving the mouse to the top of the page), a variation of a
> very early experiment of mine
> http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/21/ (dated September 2003 ...
> time flies).
>
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 7:21PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Don Hinshaw wrote:
> That's cool also. How would you envision the hover state being used (in
> conjunction with Skip Navigation, that is)?
See the second part of my answer:
> Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>> See for
>> instance what I did for Molly's site www.molly.com (try tabbing as
>> well as moving the mouse to the top of the page), a variation of a
>> very early experiment of mine
>> http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/21/ (dated September 2003 ...
>> time flies).
--
Patrick H. Lauke
___________
re
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 7:22PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Glenda,
Did you have any problems with IE6. For some reason it is not working
for me (Win2K/IE6).
http://test.hinshawdesign.com/css/skipnav.html
If I click my mouse anywhere in the page *before* I tab, then it works,
otherwise no. Both the examples cited here worked however.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Don
Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
>Don,
>
>Try tabbing through - it appears. I'm just playing with it too. I think
>it's better than what I currently have on my own site.
>--
>
>
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
510.525.2492
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: Rob Unsworth
Date: Tue, Jul 26 2005 7:33PM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
> Bob, <<<< That should be Rob, I have been known to become violent when
called Bob(Ugh) :)
>
> Mind if I borrow that too? One question tho, why aren't browser safe
> colours used?
Borrow it?, of course you can...I did (the original version).
As for browser safe colours, that is something I need to think about. I
just did it that colour to match the rest of the site.
--
Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3
Rob Unsworth | IT & Internet Chairman
Ipswich, Australia | http://www.lionsq3.asn.au
-------------------------------------------------
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 12:02AM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Don,
I'm using IE6 too and it worked just duckie. Though I did just upgrade to
XP yesterday, finally, but I doubt that has anything to do with it. Perhaps
Rob has some insights here. Good luck.
Glenda
Glenda Watson Hyatt, Principal
Soaring Eagle Communications
Accessible websites. Accessible content. Accessible solutions.
www.webaccessibility.biz
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Don Hinshaw
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 6:31 PM
To: ElektonikaMail
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] include files and skip navigation link
Glenda,
Did you have any problems with IE6. For some reason it is not working
for me (Win2K/IE6).
http://test.hinshawdesign.com/css/skipnav.html
If I click my mouse anywhere in the page *before* I tab, then it works,
otherwise no. Both the examples cited here worked however.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Don
Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
>Don,
>
>Try tabbing through - it appears. I'm just playing with it too. I think
>it's better than what I currently have on my own site.
>--
>
>
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
510.525.2492
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 12:15AM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
> Bob, <<<< That should be Rob, I have been known to become violent when
called Bob(Ugh) :)
My sincere apologies! Good thing we are in opposiite hemispheres, eh.
>> Mind if I borrow that too? One question tho, why aren't browser safe
>> colours used?
>Borrow it?, of course you can...I did (the original version).
>As for browser safe colours, that is something I need to think about. I
>just did it that colour to match the rest of the site.
That is fair. My very first venture into this field seven years was to come
up with guidelines for colour schemes for individuals with colour blindness,
like I knew anything on the topic. And that was long before visucheck etc.
That was when I became aware of browser safe colours, so now that is one
thing that really pops out at me. I love the visibone site for choosing
colours. Like you needed to know all that !
Glenda
Glenda Watson Hyatt, Principal
Soaring Eagle Communications
Accessible websites. Accessible content. Accessible solutions.
www.webaccessibility.biz
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005
From: Tim Beadle
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 3:51AM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
On 7/27/05, Glenda Watson Hyatt < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> That is fair. My very first venture into this field seven years was to come
> up with guidelines for colour schemes for individuals with colour blindness,
> like I knew anything on the topic. And that was long before visucheck etc.
> That was when I became aware of browser safe colours, so now that is one
> thing that really pops out at me. I love the visibone site for choosing
> colours. Like you needed to know all that !
My take on colours is that "browser-safeness" and "colour-blind
friendliness" are two distinct issues. We've stopped insisting on the
216 colour palette for our designers' work, as it doesn't give enough
flexibility. As long as you respect the most needs of colour blind
users and use enough contrast (for all of us!), I don't see why the
web-safe palette is necessary any more.
Regards,
Tim
From: Rob Unsworth
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 4:57AM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Glenda Watson Hyatt wrote:
> Don,
>
> I'm using IE6 too and it worked just duckie. Though I did just upgrade to
> XP yesterday, finally, but I doubt that has anything to do with it. Perhaps
> Rob has some insights here. Good luck.
When I tested in IE6, it worked. For obvious reasons I don't debug things
that work. :)
--
Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3
Rob Unsworth | IT & Internet Chairman
Ipswich, Australia | http://www.lionsq3.asn.au
-------------------------------------------------
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 8:56AM
Subject: RE: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
Rob wrote:
>When I tested in IE6, it worked. For obvious reasons I don't debug things
>that work. :)
Makes perfect sense to me. And, I bet you find lost items in the last place
you look too.
Have a good day /evening.
Cheers,
Glenda
Glenda Watson Hyatt, Principal
Soaring Eagle Communications
Accessible websites. Accessible content. Accessible solutions.
www.webaccessibility.biz
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005
From: Don Hinshaw
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2005 10:44AM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | Next message →
>Rob wrote:
>
>
>
>>When I tested in IE6, it worked. For obvious reasons I don't debug things
>>that work. :)
>>
>>
Thanks Glenda and (R)ob for taking a look at that for me. Odd that Rob's
page worked in my IE, but mine didn't!
Don
--
Don Hinshaw
Hinshaw Design Group
http://www.hinshawdesign.com
From: karen guo
Date: Thu, Jul 28 2005 12:02PM
Subject: Re: include files and skip navigation link
← Previous message | No next message
Thanks to Rob. Now the skip navigation works. And I like the one Patrick did for Molly.com.
But our Jaws still doesn't read or can't tab to "Teachers College" link, "Columbia University" link, or any navigation buttons or links. Can your Jaws do it? Is it because of Jaws or is there anything I should change?
Karen
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