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Thread: empty list item
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From: Angela French
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2009 11:30AM
Subject: empty list item
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Can anyone tell me if an empty list item, <li></li> causes any accessibility issues? I know it isn't semantically perfect, but does it cause any issues or inconviences for those using ATs?
Thank you
Angela French
Internet Specialist
State Board for Community & Technical Colleges
360-704-4316
http://www.checkoutacollege.com
http://www.sbctc.ctc.edu
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2009 11:35AM
Subject: Re: empty list item
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Angela French wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if an empty list item, <li></li> causes any accessibility issues? I know it isn't semantically perfect, but does it cause any issues or inconviences for those using ATs?
Unless I'm mistaken (can't test at the moment), screenreaders are likely
to announce those empty list items. So, if you have
<ul>
<li>one</li>
<li>two</li>
<li></li>
</ul>
a screenreader would likely announce that there's a list with 3 items.
This is likely to cause confusion or annoyance, I'd say.
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2009 11:45AM
Subject: Re: empty list item
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Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Unless I'm mistaken (can't test at the moment), screenreaders are
> likely to announce those empty list items. So, if you have
>
> <ul>
> <li>one</li>
> <li>two</li>
> <li></li>
> </ul>
>
> a screenreader would likely announce that there's a list with 3 items.
> This is likely to cause confusion or annoyance, I'd say.
That would be rather comparable to how common visual browsers render such
constructs: they display a bullet on a line of its own. This looks like an
error and indeed tends to cause confusion, annoyance, or suspicions.
If there is some need for something like an empty list item, there's
probably some placeholder text that could be put there, to prevent the
mystery effect. For example, <li>(to be added)</li>.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
From: Patrick Burke
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2009 12:00PM
Subject: Re: empty list item
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Yes, using PatL's example gives a 3-item list
with the last one empty. (With Jaws 10 + IE7 the
list is picked up as a bulleted series. The last
item just says "bullet".) On a braille display it
shows a blank space next to the bullet indicator.
So, if you're indicating a list with gaps (things
to be filled in later, etc) it gets that message
across pretty well, I think. If you're trying to
do something else, then <li></li> isn't a good way to do it.
Patrick B
At 10:34 AM 1/6/2009, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>Angela French wrote: > Can anyone tell me if an
>empty list item, <li></li> causes any
>accessibility issues? I know it isn't
>semantically perfect, but does it cause any
>issues or inconviences for those using ATs?
>Unless I'm mistaken (can't test at the moment),
>screenreaders are likely to announce those empty
>list items. So, if you have <ul> <li>one</li>
><li>two</li> <li></li> </ul> a screenreader
>would likely announce that there's a list with 3
>items. This is likely to cause confusion or
>annoyance, I'd say. P -- Patrick H. Lauke
>