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Thread: "Safe" shortcut keys

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Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)

From: Jan Heck
Date: Thu, Feb 05 2009 12:50PM
Subject: "Safe" shortcut keys
No previous message | Next message →

Some colleagues are developing a Web application, the content of which is
mostly accessed in a linear fashion, with Back and Next buttons. Can anyone
recommend "safe" keyboard shortcut combinations for the Back and Next
buttons that won't interfere with the browser, with JAWS, etc.? I could
really use some help with this!



Thanks very much,

Jan Heck



From: Shelley Haven [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:28 AM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



Hi, all!



As I mentioned in a previous post, the audio+notes recording feature of the
Livescribe pen is most effective if you have a notetaking strategy to use
with it. Here's a strategy I teach to students who have difficulty
simultaneously taking notes and listening:



I suggest they decide on a set of words which can help them find the
appropriate audio when they need it (whether to relisten to it or to expand
notes). For example, they could mark or annotate key points or "sections"
in the audio by writing just one or two words like:

- Assignment, or an "A" in a circle (for where the instructor goes over the
homework assignment)

- Major Point, MP, or an asterisk (to imply "be sure to listen to this
later")

- Test (this will be on the test)

- ?? (don't understand - ask instructor later, or go back and listen to
later)

- Page __, or a circled number (reference to something in textbook)

- [Topic name] (marks where instructor began talking about a new topic)

- [Slide title] (marks new slide just put up on screen)

- etc.



With a little practice and refinement, the result becomes a pen-navigable
outline of the lecture where the student can go back and listen to important
sections either for review or to fill in extra notes, etc. Since it always
takes a little time to decide whether to write something and what to write,
I suggest students turn on the smartpen's "Playback Latency" feature, so
that selecting a note with the pen (or on the computer after downloading)
begins audio playback from 10 seconds prior to when the note was actually
written.



BTW, the same basic strategy can be applied to notetaking software like
Microsoft OneNote (Windows only) and Circus Ponies NoteBook (Mac only), both
of which include an audio recording feature which synchronizes typed notes
and audio. With these, one can reduce notetaking even more by creating
keyboard macros for those "bookmark" terms listed above -- F1 =
"Assignment", F2 = "Major Point", etc.



Hope this helps,

Shelley Haven







At 3:51 PM -0800 2/2/09, Gaeir Dietrich wrote:

Actually, Maria, I think the pen would be great. You do not need to write
words. You could use numbers or symbols or even just a letter "x" each time
the lecturer said something that you wanted to hear later. Then you could go
back to each of your marks and the pen would let you know what was being
said at that time. You could think of it as a way of putting a "bookmark" in
the audio file.

******************************************************
Gaeir (rhymes with "fire") Dietrich
High Tech Center Training Unit of the
California Community Colleges
De Anza College, Cupertino, CA
www.htctu.net
408-996-6043

_____

From: Pena, Maria [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:04 PM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



Question Daryl et al - With my LD my writing looks like chicken scratch - I
cannot even write on the lines, I miss information, and usually it is best
if I have a note taker in class - BUT - I always record my lectures - so for
someone like me, is this pen worth it, or is it better to use a digital
recorder with a USB cable to download the audio file later and just get a
note taker? I have students who are just like me with their LD's so I am
curious for them also - please advise?



"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless
swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do
not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you
deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature
of your battle. The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it
is possible, it is yours."

-Ayn Rand (1905-1982); novelist, screenwriter, playwright,







From: Daryl Murphy [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:14 AM

To: Alternate Media

Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



I purchased this pen In Nov of last year and works great. The following is
just a sample of things that it can do and things that are in the works for
the coming months;

1. record conversations, lectures, or meetings in normal settings. (you
can be in the middle of the classroom and record the instructor very well)

2. take notes while recording to match notes with speech

3. save the notes and speech to a computer

4. save and publish notes on their web site for free to share notes

5. (with an optional program) turn your notes into text for word
processing

6. Print out paper for note taking with the newer color laser printers
(if the printer is less than 2 years old, should be just fine)

7. If you purchased the paper it's basically the same price as in the
store (comes with 3 tablets, extra ink refills, carrying case) [from Costco
$199.99 2 gig model]

8. Soon to be released, a translation dictionary program and OCR to text
program

There web site is



<http://www.livescribe.com/index.html>; http://www.livescribe.com/index.html



great tool



Daryl R. Murphy

Adaptive Computer Technician Specialist (Retired)

862.1315



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean J Keegan [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:37 PM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: Re: has anyone heard of this new tech device?





> a person taking notes for one of our students came in today

> and is using a pen (with special paper) that records the lecture

> then the student can download it via a USB cable



It is called the Pulse SmartPen by LiveScribe
(http://www.livescribe.com/smartpen/index.html - warning Flash site). Cost
for the 1GB model is $149 and for the 2GB model $199.



It does basically what you mentioned - it can record audio while the student
is taking notes. The really cool part is that if you are using their
special paper, the audio content is "synchronized" with the notes on the
page. All you need to do is press on the paper where the notes were taken
and the pen will automatically jump to that section of the audio recording.



We have a number of them in circulation, but I have not heard back from
students if they are a real benefit or just a fancy pen. A few comments I
have heard from others is that it is a nice feature to have the audio, but
you need to be careful where you sit in the class in order to get a good
audio recording. What I would like to look at is what learning and
note-taking strategies are important to use in order to take advantage of
the pen's features.



Next month is "smartpen month" for me as I am planning to play with it more
then.



Take care,

sean



Sean Keegan

Associate Director, Assistive Technology

Office of Accessible Education - Stanford University

From: John Foliot
Date: Thu, Feb 05 2009 1:00PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=43





JF



============================

John Foliot

Program Manager

Stanford Online Accessibility Program

http://soap.stanford.edu

Stanford University

Tel: 650-862-4603



Soap Is a program directed by the

Vice Provost for Student Affairs

============================







From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jan Heck
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:47 AM
To: 'Alternate Media'; 'WebAIM Discussion List'; 'Discussion list for web
and software accessibility issues'
Subject: [Accessibility_sig] "Safe" shortcut keys



Some colleagues are developing a Web application, the content of which is
mostly accessed in a linear fashion, with Back and Next buttons. Can
anyone recommend "safe" keyboard shortcut combinations for the Back and
Next buttons that won't interfere with the browser, with JAWS, etc.? I
could really use some help with this!



Thanks very much,

Jan Heck



From: Shelley Haven [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:28 AM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



Hi, all!



As I mentioned in a previous post, the audio+notes recording feature of
the Livescribe pen is most effective if you have a notetaking strategy to
use with it. Here's a strategy I teach to students who have difficulty
simultaneously taking notes and listening:



I suggest they decide on a set of words which can help them find the
appropriate audio when they need it (whether to relisten to it or to
expand notes). For example, they could mark or annotate key points or
"sections" in the audio by writing just one or two words like:

- Assignment, or an "A" in a circle (for where the instructor goes over
the homework assignment)

- Major Point, MP, or an asterisk (to imply "be sure to listen to this
later")

- Test (this will be on the test)

- ?? (don't understand - ask instructor later, or go back and listen to
later)

- Page __, or a circled number (reference to something in textbook)

- [Topic name] (marks where instructor began talking about a new topic)

- [Slide title] (marks new slide just put up on screen)

- etc.



With a little practice and refinement, the result becomes a pen-navigable
outline of the lecture where the student can go back and listen to
important sections either for review or to fill in extra notes, etc.
Since it always takes a little time to decide whether to write something
and what to write, I suggest students turn on the smartpen's "Playback
Latency" feature, so that selecting a note with the pen (or on the
computer after downloading) begins audio playback from 10 seconds prior to
when the note was actually written.



BTW, the same basic strategy can be applied to notetaking software like
Microsoft OneNote (Windows only) and Circus Ponies NoteBook (Mac only),
both of which include an audio recording feature which synchronizes typed
notes and audio. With these, one can reduce notetaking even more by
creating keyboard macros for those "bookmark" terms listed above -- F1 =
"Assignment", F2 = "Major Point", etc.



Hope this helps,

Shelley Haven







At 3:51 PM -0800 2/2/09, Gaeir Dietrich wrote:

Actually, Maria, I think the pen would be great. You do not need to write
words. You could use numbers or symbols or even just a letter "x" each
time the lecturer said something that you wanted to hear later. Then you
could go back to each of your marks and the pen would let you know what
was being said at that time. You could think of it as a way of putting a
"bookmark" in the audio file.

******************************************************
Gaeir (rhymes with "fire") Dietrich
High Tech Center Training Unit of the
California Community Colleges
De Anza College, Cupertino, CA
www.htctu.net
408-996-6043

_____

From: Pena, Maria [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:04 PM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



Question Daryl et al - With my LD my writing looks like chicken scratch -
I cannot even write on the lines, I miss information, and usually it is
best if I have a note taker in class - BUT - I always record my lectures -
so for someone like me, is this pen worth it, or is it better to use a
digital recorder with a USB cable to download the audio file later and
just get a note taker? I have students who are just like me with their
LD's so I am curious for them also - please advise?



"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the
hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the
not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration
for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your
road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won. It
exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."

-Ayn Rand (1905-1982); novelist, screenwriter, playwright,







From: Daryl Murphy [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:14 AM

To: Alternate Media

Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?



I purchased this pen In Nov of last year and works great. The following
is just a sample of things that it can do and things that are in the works
for the coming months;

1. record conversations, lectures, or meetings in normal settings. (you
can be in the middle of the classroom and record the instructor very well)

2. take notes while recording to match notes with speech

3. save the notes and speech to a computer

4. save and publish notes on their web site for free to share notes

5. (with an optional program) turn your notes into text for word
processing

6. Print out paper for note taking with the newer color laser printers
(if the printer is less than 2 years old, should be just fine)

7. If you purchased the paper it's basically the same price as in the
store (comes with 3 tablets, extra ink refills, carrying case) [from
Costco $199.99 2 gig model]

8. Soon to be released, a translation dictionary program and OCR to
text program

There web site is



<http://www.livescribe.com/index.html>;
http://www.livescribe.com/index.html



great tool



Daryl R. Murphy

Adaptive Computer Technician Specialist (Retired)

862.1315



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean J Keegan [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:37 PM
To: Alternate Media
Subject: Re: has anyone heard of this new tech device?





> a person taking notes for one of our students came in today

> and is using a pen (with special paper) that records the lecture

> then the student can download it via a USB cable



It is called the Pulse SmartPen by LiveScribe
(http://www.livescribe.com/smartpen/index.html - warning Flash site).
Cost for the 1GB model is $149 and for the 2GB model $199.



It does basically what you mentioned - it can record audio while the
student is taking notes. The really cool part is that if you are using
their special paper, the audio content is "synchronized" with the notes on
the page. All you need to do is press on the paper where the notes were
taken and the pen will automatically jump to that section of the audio
recording.



We have a number of them in circulation, but I have not heard back from
students if they are a real benefit or just a fancy pen. A few comments I
have heard from others is that it is a nice feature to have the audio, but
you need to be careful where you sit in the class in order to get a good
audio recording. What I would like to look at is what learning and
note-taking strategies are important to use in order to take advantage of
the pen's features.



Next month is "smartpen month" for me as I am planning to play with it
more then.



Take care,

sean



Sean Keegan

Associate Director, Assistive Technology

Office of Accessible Education - Stanford University

From: Christophe Strobbe
Date: Tue, Feb 10 2009 3:55AM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

John,

At 20:58 5/02/2009, John Foliot wrote:
>http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=43

What is your opinion on Gez Lemon's "User-Defined Access Keys":
<http://juicystudio.com/article/user-defined-accesskeys.php>; /
<http://juicystudio.com/article/user-defined-access-keys-aspversion.php>;?

Best regards,

Christophe


>JF
>
>
>
>============================
>
>John Foliot
>
>Program Manager
>
>Stanford Online Accessibility Program
>
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jan Heck
>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:47 AM
>To: 'Alternate Media'; 'WebAIM Discussion List'; 'Discussion list for web
>and software accessibility issues'
>Subject: [Accessibility_sig] "Safe" shortcut keys
>
>
>
>Some colleagues are developing a Web application, the content of which is
>mostly accessed in a linear fashion, with Back and Next buttons. Can
>anyone recommend "safe" keyboard shortcut combinations for the Back and
>Next buttons that won't interfere with the browser, with JAWS, etc.? I
>could really use some help with this!
>
>
>
>Thanks very much,
>
>Jan Heck
>
>
>
>From: Shelley Haven [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:28 AM
>To: Alternate Media
>Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?
>
>
>
>Hi, all!
>
>
>
>As I mentioned in a previous post, the audio+notes recording feature of
>the Livescribe pen is most effective if you have a notetaking strategy to
>use with it. Here's a strategy I teach to students who have difficulty
>simultaneously taking notes and listening:
>
>
>
>I suggest they decide on a set of words which can help them find the
>appropriate audio when they need it (whether to relisten to it or to
>expand notes). For example, they could mark or annotate key points or
>"sections" in the audio by writing just one or two words like:
>
>- Assignment, or an "A" in a circle (for where the instructor goes over
>the homework assignment)
>
>- Major Point, MP, or an asterisk (to imply "be sure to listen to this
>later")
>
>- Test (this will be on the test)
>
>- ?? (don't understand - ask instructor later, or go back and listen to
>later)
>
>- Page __, or a circled number (reference to something in textbook)
>
>- [Topic name] (marks where instructor began talking about a new topic)
>
>- [Slide title] (marks new slide just put up on screen)
>
>- etc.
>
>
>
>With a little practice and refinement, the result becomes a pen-navigable
>outline of the lecture where the student can go back and listen to
>important sections either for review or to fill in extra notes, etc.
>Since it always takes a little time to decide whether to write something
>and what to write, I suggest students turn on the smartpen's "Playback
>Latency" feature, so that selecting a note with the pen (or on the
>computer after downloading) begins audio playback from 10 seconds prior to
>when the note was actually written.
>
>
>
>BTW, the same basic strategy can be applied to notetaking software like
>Microsoft OneNote (Windows only) and Circus Ponies NoteBook (Mac only),
>both of which include an audio recording feature which synchronizes typed
>notes and audio. With these, one can reduce notetaking even more by
>creating keyboard macros for those "bookmark" terms listed above -- F1 =
>"Assignment", F2 = "Major Point", etc.
>
>
>
>Hope this helps,
>
> Shelley Haven
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 3:51 PM -0800 2/2/09, Gaeir Dietrich wrote:
>
>Actually, Maria, I think the pen would be great. You do not need to write
>words. You could use numbers or symbols or even just a letter "x" each
>time the lecturer said something that you wanted to hear later. Then you
>could go back to each of your marks and the pen would let you know what
>was being said at that time. You could think of it as a way of putting a
>"bookmark" in the audio file.
>
>******************************************************
>Gaeir (rhymes with "fire") Dietrich
>High Tech Center Training Unit of the
>California Community Colleges
>De Anza College, Cupertino, CA
>www.htctu.net
>408-996-6043
>
> _____
>
>From: Pena, Maria [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:04 PM
>To: Alternate Media
>Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?
>
>
>
>Question Daryl et al - With my LD my writing looks like chicken scratch -
>I cannot even write on the lines, I miss information, and usually it is
>best if I have a note taker in class - BUT - I always record my lectures -
>so for someone like me, is this pen worth it, or is it better to use a
>digital recorder with a USB cable to download the audio file later and
>just get a note taker? I have students who are just like me with their
>LD's so I am curious for them also - please advise?
>
>
>
>"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the
>hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the
>not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration
>for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your
>road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won. It
>exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."
>
>-Ayn Rand (1905-1982); novelist, screenwriter, playwright,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Daryl Murphy [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:14 AM
>
>To: Alternate Media
>
>Subject: RE: has anyone heard of this new tech device?
>
>
>
>I purchased this pen In Nov of last year and works great. The following
>is just a sample of things that it can do and things that are in the works
>for the coming months;
>
>1. record conversations, lectures, or meetings in normal settings. (you
>can be in the middle of the classroom and record the instructor very well)
>
>2. take notes while recording to match notes with speech
>
>3. save the notes and speech to a computer
>
>4. save and publish notes on their web site for free to share notes
>
>5. (with an optional program) turn your notes into text for word
>processing
>
>6. Print out paper for note taking with the newer color laser printers
>(if the printer is less than 2 years old, should be just fine)
>
>7. If you purchased the paper it's basically the same price as in the
>store (comes with 3 tablets, extra ink refills, carrying case) [from
>Costco $199.99 2 gig model]
>
>8. Soon to be released, a translation dictionary program and OCR to
>text program
>
>There web site is
>
>
>
> <http://www.livescribe.com/index.html>;
>http://www.livescribe.com/index.html
>
>
>
>great tool
>
>
>
>Daryl R. Murphy
>
>Adaptive Computer Technician Specialist (Retired)
>
>862.1315
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sean J Keegan [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:37 PM
>To: Alternate Media
>Subject: Re: has anyone heard of this new tech device?
>
>
>
>
>
> > a person taking notes for one of our students came in today
>
> > and is using a pen (with special paper) that records the lecture
>
> > then the student can download it via a USB cable
>
>
>
>It is called the Pulse SmartPen by LiveScribe
>(http://www.livescribe.com/smartpen/index.html - warning Flash site).
>Cost for the 1GB model is $149 and for the 2GB model $199.
>
>
>
>It does basically what you mentioned - it can record audio while the
>student is taking notes. The really cool part is that if you are using
>their special paper, the audio content is "synchronized" with the notes on
>the page. All you need to do is press on the paper where the notes were
>taken and the pen will automatically jump to that section of the audio
>recording.
>
>
>
>We have a number of them in circulation, but I have not heard back from
>students if they are a real benefit or just a fancy pen. A few comments I
>have heard from others is that it is a nice feature to have the audio, but
>you need to be careful where you sit in the class in order to get a good
>audio recording. What I would like to look at is what learning and
>note-taking strategies are important to use in order to take advantage of
>the pen's features.
>
>
>
>Next month is "smartpen month" for me as I am planning to play with it
>more then.
>
>
>
>Take care,
>
>sean
>
>
>
>Sean Keegan
>
>Associate Director, Assistive Technology
>
>Office of Accessible Education - Stanford University
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: John Foliot
Date: Tue, Feb 10 2009 3:25PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

Christophe Strobbe wrote:
>
> John,
>
> At 20:58 5/02/2009, John Foliot wrote:
> >http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=43
>
> What is your opinion on Gez Lemon's "User-Defined Access Keys":
> <http://juicystudio.com/article/user-defined-accesskeys.php>; /
>
<http://juicystudio.com/article/user-defined-access-keys-aspversion.php>;?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe

The right idea, and much better - it puts the final control in the hands
of the person most appropriately situated to make a workable decision on
mapping shortcut keys inside the user-interface. When I first compiled
that list however, solutions such as Gez's did not exist, and still today
I see too many instances of accesskey with built in conflicts that need
not exist.

The only on-going issue is that to be able to implement this type of
solution, the end user needs to be instructed on what/how, and if I recall
correctly, custom mapping needs to be implemented on a site-by-site basis
- so it does not address the learning issue associated to accesskeys. (How
many sites are so often visited that having onboard accesskey mappings is
really needed? With built-in keyboard shortcuts that allow for inter-page
navigation [list of headings for example] native to screen reading
technology, I suspect very, very few -
http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey/#accesskeys).

Ideally this type of functionality should be native to the user-agent (in
fact sort of is inside of Opera - I wonder if Opera can now map to ARIA
@role landmarks - hmmmm....), so that end users could map their own
shortcut keys to appropriate functions. I had long ago argued that
instead of mapping to any keys, that the hooks be exposed to the DOM and
the mapping function reside inside the UA. Originally the aria @role
attribute was my suggestion (http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=47),
back when XHTML2 was talking about adding a new element (access) along
with the redundant and IMHO useless/stupid @key attribute. My feelings
are not really that different today, and with ARIA work progressing at a
rapid rate, the functionality should emerge within the browsers natively,
and @accesskey given a proper burial.

(I have also seen a JavaScript type function which allows for remapping as
well, although I prefer the server-side script solution for all of the
reasons why server-side is better than client-side <grin>.)

Cheers!

JF

From: Rich Pedley
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 2:25AM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

On 10/02/2009 22:24, John Foliot wrote:
> Christophe Strobbe wrote:

>> At 20:58 5/02/2009, John Foliot wrote:
>>> http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=43
>> What is your opinion on Gez Lemon's "User-Defined Access Keys":
>> <http://juicystudio.com/article/user-defined-accesskeys.php>;

>
> The right idea, and much better - it puts the final control in the
> hands of the person most appropriately situated to make a workable
> decision on mapping shortcut keys inside the user-interface. When
> I first compiled that list however, solutions such as Gez's did not
> exist, and still today I see too many instances of accesskey with
> built in conflicts that need not exist.
>
> The only on-going issue is that to be able to implement this type
> of solution, the end user needs to be instructed on what/how, and
> if I recall correctly, custom mapping needs to be implemented on a
> site-by-site basis

There have been suggestions that default access keys should be used
with these - though I'm not in favour of that myself.

How many programs do you have that you know *all* the keyboard
shortcuts for? Now how many sites do you visit? Unless the
implementation of access keys is the same across the board then
remembering them becomes nigh on impossible. At least where you can
define your own set it gives you a chance to remember them.

But until every site allows people to set their own access keys -
which lets face it is never going to happen - then their usefulness is
considerably lessened. Look at the situation where access keys *are*
implemented - how many sites actually use the same set? You might say
that the government sites do, but I can guarantee that they all don't.
So then it becomes hit and miss as to whether they work or not.

So I agree with John, no surprise on this topic.

Rich

From: John Foliot
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 6:45PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

Rich Pedley wrote:
>
> But until every site allows people to set their own access keys -
> which lets face it is never going to happen - then their usefulness is
> considerably lessened. Look at the situation where access keys *are*
> implemented - how many sites actually use the same set? You might say
> that the government sites do, but I can guarantee that they all don't.
> So then it becomes hit and miss as to whether they work or not.

HOWEVER...

If we start to see widespread adoption of the ARIA landmark roles <big
hint!>, then the user-agents will have predictable DOM hooks that can then
be configured by the end user as far as key-mapping is concerned. For
example, if the majority of sites used the @role landmark of "search"
(role="search") then you could configure your browser so that a particular
keystroke combination (of *your* choosing) would always put focus on the
search area. This completely eliminates "learn-ability" issues as well as
potential keystroke conflicts with different browsers and adaptive
technologies, making my poor little chart of 2002 a quaint reminder of the
way things used to be...

So Rich, never say never...

>
> So I agree with John, no surprise on this topic.
>

That's only because you've been hearing me go on about accesskeys for
years Rich (LOL)

Cheers!

JF

From: Chris Hoffman
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 7:00PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

What if there was a site you could go to with a form that let you
choose different access keys for different ARIA landmarks (e.g., "What
key would you like to assign to 'Go to main content'?"). Submitting
the form would generate a customized Greasemonkey (user script plugin
for Firefox) script, which would then apply the access key settings to
any sites you visit that have the appropriate landmarks.

I don't think it would be too hard to implement.

--Chris

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 7:55PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

Chris Hoffman wrote:
> What if there was a site you could go to with a form that let you
> choose different access keys for different ARIA landmarks (e.g., "What
> key would you like to assign to 'Go to main content'?"). Submitting
> the form would generate a customized Greasemonkey (user script plugin
> for Firefox) script, which would then apply the access key settings to
> any sites you visit that have the appropriate landmarks.

Or you could just have a native firefox extension, with its own native
dialog for the customisation, that does the same, avoiding the need for
a website to generate a script for another extension.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

From: Chris Hoffman
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 8:45PM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | Next message →

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Patrick H. Lauke
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Or you could just have a native firefox extension, with its own native
> dialog for the customisation, that does the same, avoiding the need for
> a website to generate a script for another extension.

Which of course means teaching myself to write FF extensions. I'm up
for the challenge.

--Chris

From: Rich Pedley
Date: Thu, Feb 12 2009 2:30AM
Subject: Re: "Safe" shortcut keys
← Previous message | No next message

On 12/02/2009 01:43, John Foliot wrote:
> Rich Pedley wrote:
>> But until every site allows people to set their own access keys -
>> which lets face it is never going to happen - then their usefulness is
>> considerably lessened. Look at the situation where access keys *are*
>> implemented - how many sites actually use the same set? You might say
>> that the government sites do, but I can guarantee that they all don't.
>> So then it becomes hit and miss as to whether they work or not.
>
> HOWEVER...
>
> If we start to see widespread adoption of the ARIA landmark roles <big
> hint!>, then the user-agents will have predictable DOM hooks that can then
> be configured by the end user as far as key-mapping is concerned. For
> example, if the majority of sites used the @role landmark of "search"
> (role="search") then you could configure your browser so that a particular
> keystroke combination (of *your* choosing) would always put focus on the
> search area. This completely eliminates "learn-ability" issues as well as
> potential keystroke conflicts with different browsers and adaptive
> technologies, making my poor little chart of 2002 a quaint reminder of the
> way things used to be...
>
> So Rich, never say never...
>
>> So I agree with John, no surprise on this topic.
>>
>
> That's only because you've been hearing me go on about accesskeys for
> years Rich (LOL)

actually I deleted the part about until UA can...

Rich