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Thread: Accessible CAPTCHA
Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)
From: Seth Kane
Date: Wed, Jul 01 2009 3:15PM
Subject: Accessible CAPTCHA
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I am sure I already know the answer to this but is there such a thing of an Accessible CAPTCHA
I tried reCAPTACH with Jaws and NVDA and it is nearly impossible to use.
I am looking for an example of one that will pass accessibility testing, not alternative methods. If there isn't such a thing I am ok with that as an answer as well.
Thanks
-Seth
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Wed, Jul 01 2009 3:25PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Seth, I'll save Jared Smith of WebAIM the trouble of answering by quoting an earlier answer he gave. There was more back-and-forth on this discussion, but this is what I took home from it.
This is Jared speaking:
Here are a few options:
http://system-x.info/?pageid=18&;menutree=47
http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=128
http://www.purple-dogfish.co.uk/free-stuff/accessible-captcha
*All* CAPTCHAs can be broken. Even the most complex, inaccessible ones
at Yahoo and Google are being bypassed now. The question you have to
ask is, "would anyone dedicate a lot of time to implement a system for
bypassing my CAPTCHA?" If the answer is "no", then you don't even need
to implement CAPTCHA at all. If the problem is spam from a web form,
CAPTCHA *is not* the best solution.
By implementing just a couple of the simple, back-end techniques I
wrote about at http://www.webaim.org/blog/spam_free_accessible_forms/
you can get rid of probably 99.9% of bot submissions. While someone
could get around all of these techniques (and indeed any CAPTCHA,
particularly the "accessible" ones",) they probably are not likely to
spend the time to do so just to send you a bit of spam. For the many
sites on which I have implemented this approach, the spam has been
reduced to at most a few per year - and those are almost certainly
human spammers.
This is the end of Jared's comments.
I've found this approach to be reliable enough on a site that I maintain for a nonprofit.
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> Seth Kane < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 7/1/2009 4:14 PM >>>
I am sure I already know the answer to this but is there such a thing of an Accessible CAPTCHA
I tried reCAPTACH with Jaws and NVDA and it is nearly impossible to use.
I am looking for an example of one that will pass accessibility testing, not alternative methods. If there isn't such a thing I am ok with that as an answer as well.
Thanks
-Seth
From: Randi Oomens
Date: Wed, Jul 01 2009 3:40PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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We had a huge discussion on this some months ago, about how to develop
an accessible CAPTCHA. There were some good ideas, but all could still
be broken.
I actually found my first ever accessible audible CAPTCHA on mlb.com,
when I was voting for the allstar game. It said the numbers and letter
perfectly clear, and when you click listen, it put the cursor right in
the text edit box, so I could type immediately. Not sure how their
visible one is. However, it seems like this could easily be broken by
a bot, as the bots can now do the audible CAPTCHAS.
Makes you wonder how fair the voting for the allstar game will be. ;)
But, I am highly impressed with the measures mlb.com is taking for
accessibility.
I just had a rant about these stupid things when I was trying to get a
Windows Live ID for the chat program. Couldn't do it.
Randi
From: Moore,Michael
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 11:40AM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Not to be a stick in the mud, but how exactly would this work for someone who was deaf/blind. I continue to maintain that there is no such thing as an accessible CAPTCHA.
Mike Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Randi Oomens
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessible CAPTCHA
We had a huge discussion on this some months ago, about how to develop
an accessible CAPTCHA. There were some good ideas, but all could still
be broken.
I actually found my first ever accessible audible CAPTCHA on mlb.com,
when I was voting for the allstar game. It said the numbers and letter
perfectly clear, and when you click listen, it put the cursor right in
the text edit box, so I could type immediately. Not sure how their
visible one is. However, it seems like this could easily be broken by
a bot, as the bots can now do the audible CAPTCHAS.
Makes you wonder how fair the voting for the allstar game will be. ;)
But, I am highly impressed with the measures mlb.com is taking for
accessibility.
I just had a rant about these stupid things when I was trying to get a
Windows Live ID for the chat program. Couldn't do it.
Randi
From: Randi Oomens
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 11:45AM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Wow good point. There would need to be something that came across on
the braille display. But how on earth to do that?
From: Travis Roth
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 12:05PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Mike Moore wrote:
"Not to be a stick in the mud, but how exactly would this work for someone
who was deaf/blind. I continue to maintain that there is no such thing as an
accessible CAPTCHA."
Agreed, it seems many think offering audio as an alternative solves all.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Randi Oomens
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessible CAPTCHA
We had a huge discussion on this some months ago, about how to develop
an accessible CAPTCHA. There were some good ideas, but all could still
be broken.
I actually found my first ever accessible audible CAPTCHA on mlb.com,
when I was voting for the allstar game. It said the numbers and letter
perfectly clear, and when you click listen, it put the cursor right in
the text edit box, so I could type immediately. Not sure how their
visible one is. However, it seems like this could easily be broken by
a bot, as the bots can now do the audible CAPTCHAS.
Makes you wonder how fair the voting for the allstar game will be. ;)
But, I am highly impressed with the measures mlb.com is taking for
accessibility.
I just had a rant about these stupid things when I was trying to get a
Windows Live ID for the chat program. Couldn't do it.
Randi
From: Dean Hamack
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 12:10PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Alt text on the image?
On 7/2/09 10:44 AM, "Randi Oomens" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Wow good point. There would need to be something that came across on
> the braille display. But how on earth to do that?
>
From: Randi Oomens
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 12:20PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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I don't think that would work. It would come across as an image, not
individual letters, so the braille display couldn't translate it.
Unless there was a picture description...like an image tag explaining
the image and then reading the letters/numbers.
From: Travis Roth
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 12:45PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Dean Hamack said:
"Alt text on the image?"
Sure, but it'd be no problem for a bot to pick up the Alt text too,
defeating the original intent of the captcha.
On 7/2/09 10:44 AM, "Randi Oomens" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Wow good point. There would need to be something that came across on
> the braille display. But how on earth to do that?
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 2:00PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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Well with the audio ones I have come across I dont find them very
accessible either, scrap them altogether.
cheers
Geof
At 02:02 PM 7/2/2009, you wrote:
>Mike Moore wrote:
>"Not to be a stick in the mud, but how exactly would this work for someone
>who was deaf/blind. I continue to maintain that there is no such thing as an
>accessible CAPTCHA."
>
>Agreed, it seems many think offering audio as an alternative solves all.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Randi Oomens
>Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:38 PM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessible CAPTCHA
>
>We had a huge discussion on this some months ago, about how to develop
>an accessible CAPTCHA. There were some good ideas, but all could still
>be broken.
>
>I actually found my first ever accessible audible CAPTCHA on mlb.com,
>when I was voting for the allstar game. It said the numbers and letter
>perfectly clear, and when you click listen, it put the cursor right in
>the text edit box, so I could type immediately. Not sure how their
>visible one is. However, it seems like this could easily be broken by
>a bot, as the bots can now do the audible CAPTCHAS.
>
>Makes you wonder how fair the voting for the allstar game will be. ;)
>But, I am highly impressed with the measures mlb.com is taking for
>accessibility.
>
>I just had a rant about these stupid things when I was trying to get a
>Windows Live ID for the chat program. Couldn't do it.
>
>Randi
>
From: Rahul Gonsalves
Date: Thu, Jul 02 2009 9:10PM
Subject: Re: Accessible CAPTCHA
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On 02-Jul-09, at 11:08 PM, Moore,Michael wrote:
> Not to be a stick in the mud, but how exactly would this work for
> someone who was deaf/blind. I continue to maintain that there is no
> such thing as an accessible CAPTCHA.
Some people have mooted the idea of using questions/answers instead of
images.
One such implementation:
http://devot-ee.com/add-ons/extensions/accessible-captcha/
For those times when a CAPTCHA /is/ inaccessible, solona.net seems to
have a solution:
http://www.evengrounds.com/blog/human-aided-accessible-captcha-solona
And, last click - A Proposal for an Accessible CAPTCHA:
http://www.standards-schmandards.com/2005/captcha/
Best,
- Rahul.