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Thread: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Mark Magennis
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 4:40AM
Subject: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
No previous message | Next message →
Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
Thanks,
Mark
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From: Moore,Michael
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 7:05AM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
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Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice I have not observed many people doing this.
If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from Word.
More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings. These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
Mike Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
To: Webaim Forum
Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
Thanks,
Mark
********************************************************************
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
delete it and any attachments from your system.
NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
represent the views of NCBI
********************************************************************
From: Julie Strothman
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 7:25AM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | Next message →
Is it true that Word 2008 for Mac does not have the ability to add alternate
text?
I've not been able to find it, if you can--it's not an option in the 'Format
Picture' dialog box tabs, nor in the formatting pane.
-Julie Strothman
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Moore,Michael <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the
> alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not
> consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable
> behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use
> while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice
> I have not observed many people doing this.
>
> If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will
> definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from
> Word.
>
> More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings.
> These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve
> navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will
> also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
>
> One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These
> little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many
> other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not
> appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I
> have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not
> seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
>
> Mike Moore
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
> To: Webaim Forum
> Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
>
> Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
> format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
> enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> ********************************************************************
>
> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
> is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
> the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
> the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
> delete it and any attachments from your system.
>
> NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
> by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
> it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
> transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
>
> Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
> and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent the views of NCBI
>
>
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
From: Moore,Michael
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 7:30AM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | Next message →
In the Windows versions it can be found within the size dialog. I am not sure about the Mac but that's where I would start.
Mike Moore
(512) 424-4159
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Strothman
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Is it true that Word 2008 for Mac does not have the ability to add alternate
text?
I've not been able to find it, if you can--it's not an option in the 'Format
Picture' dialog box tabs, nor in the formatting pane.
-Julie Strothman
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Moore,Michael <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the
> alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not
> consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable
> behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use
> while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice
> I have not observed many people doing this.
>
> If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will
> definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from
> Word.
>
> More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings.
> These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve
> navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will
> also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
>
> One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These
> little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many
> other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not
> appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I
> have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not
> seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
>
> Mike Moore
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
> To: Webaim Forum
> Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
>
> Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
> format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
> enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> ********************************************************************
>
> NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
> is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
> the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
> the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
> delete it and any attachments from your system.
>
> NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
> by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
> it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
> transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
>
> Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
> and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent the views of NCBI
>
>
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 8:30AM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | Next message →
Good points, Mike. I'm glad to hear that at least some alt text is read in Word 2007.
I have one minor but important correction: In Word, those troublesome "text areas" are actually called "text boxes." (I just want to be sure everyone knows exactly what you mean.)
In my experience, they have been used to try to fix bad writing. It doesn't work. For that reason, I am tickled to find that AT does not play well with them. With that fact at my side, I have a much stronger argument for fixing the document for everyone.
Cliff
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Moore,Michael" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 8/20/2009 8:03 AM >>>
Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice I have not observed many people doing this.
If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from Word.
More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings. These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
Mike Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
To: Webaim Forum
Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
Thanks,
Mark
********************************************************************
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
delete it and any attachments from your system.
NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
represent the views of NCBI
********************************************************************
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 6:50PM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | Next message →
You are right in that Office for Mac doesn't let you provide Alt text. It is
also not accessible.
The other document part to avoid is the "paragraph frame" which is like a
text box but has a different name. In Word 2007 the new content controls are
inaccessible but using legacy controls for forms provides the same level of
accessibility as in Word 2003. Paragraph frames can be found in the new
style or modify style dialog under the Format button. Just say no!
I always recommend that captions be used for tables, images and equations in
the event that the document is printed or the Alt Text is not rendered to
the end user. The caption can be the same text as the Alt Text or different
text. As a person using a screen reader I'd rather use my keyboard commands
to skip over redundant information than to miss something.
Cheers, Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:29 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Good points, Mike. I'm glad to hear that at least some alt text is read in
Word 2007.
I have one minor but important correction: In Word, those troublesome "text
areas" are actually called "text boxes." (I just want to be sure everyone
knows exactly what you mean.)
In my experience, they have been used to try to fix bad writing. It doesn't
work. For that reason, I am tickled to find that AT does not play well with
them. With that fact at my side, I have a much stronger argument for fixing
the document for everyone.
Cliff
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Moore,Michael" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 8/20/2009 8:03 AM >>>
Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the
alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not
consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable
behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use
while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice
I have not observed many people doing this.
If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will
definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from
Word.
More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings.
These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve
navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will
also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These
little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many
other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not
appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I
have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not
seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
Mike Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
To: Webaim Forum
Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
Thanks,
Mark
********************************************************************
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
delete it and any attachments from your system.
NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
represent the views of NCBI
********************************************************************
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Thu, Aug 20 2009 10:45PM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | Next message →
Mike, have you checked to be sure whether the "layout" setting for the image format is "in line with text"? If my hunch is right, it will be for all the images for which JAWS announces the "alt" text, and it won't be for any of the images JAWS skips.
All the other settings make the image float. That causes all kinds of problems in Word 2003. For example, with any setting other than "in line with text," the caption to the image will wind up in a text box, and, if you try to get Word to generate a list of figures, none of those floating images will appear in that list.
Cliff
>>> "Moore,Michael" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 08/20/09 8:04 AM >>>
Well, yes and no. We have found with JAWS 9 and 10 and Office 2007 that the alternative text will be announced by the screen reader, just not consistently. We have not been able to determine what causes the variable behavior. There are also other methods that screen reader users can use while in Word to access the alternative text in the images, but in practice I have not observed many people doing this.
If the document is converted to PDF or HTML the alternative text will definitely be present for the user. This saves a step when working from Word.
More important in Word documents, is the use of styles to mark up headings. These are made available to the JAWS screen reader users and greatly improve navigation through the document. I am not sure about other ATs. These will also convert to headings in HTML and PDF.
One thing to definitely avoid within Word documents are "text areas." These little gems that are frequently used for callouts, and misused for many other purposes, are generally missed by screen reader users. They do not appear within the normal document flow and thus are difficult to find. I have seen several hacks to get around the issue, but in practice I have not seen them work well in any version of JAWS that we have tested.
Mike Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mark Magennis
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:38 AM
To: Webaim Forum
Subject: [WebAIM] MS Word accessibility supported for images?
Can the use of text alternatives with images in Microsoft Word (DOC
format) files be said to be accessibility supported? That is, are
enough assistive technologies able to read the alt text if it is there?
Thanks,
Mark
********************************************************************
NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments
is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of
the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify
the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to
delete it and any attachments from your system.
NCBI endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated
by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However,
it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are
transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
represent the views of NCBI
********************************************************************
From: Moore,Michael
Date: Fri, Aug 21 2009 6:15AM
Subject: Re: MS Word accessibility supported for images?
← Previous message | No next message
Cliff,
I will see if Dan and I can set up a set of experiments next week. Since we are testing JAWS 9 and 10 at this time we may be able to get so fairly good data, at least for JAWS and Office 2007 anyway.
Mike