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From: Randall Pope
Date: Fri, Sep 04 2009 9:15AM
Subject: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org

301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB

Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
Hi all,

Is there any way to convert QuarkXPress and PageMaker documents into
accessible PDF file? I just gotten a rude waken the other day that the PDF
documents created by QuarkXPress were not accessible for the screen readers.


If these programs cannot do the conversion, can anyone recommend a
publishing software that will convert the document into accessible PDF?

Thank for your help.

Randy Pope
AADB

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Sep 04 2009 10:20AM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Generally Adobe InDesign does a fair job of creating the Tags for a document
exported to tagged PDF but you have to do some work as you design the
document to get the most out of InDesign's capabilities.

Check your version of PageMaker to see if you can use the export settings to
create tagged PDF. Of course the Tags will depend on how the document was
created and Adobe has some resources on their web site for creating
accessible documents/InDesign based.

I've heard that the most recent version of Quark will let you export to
tagged PDF but can't find any documentation on their web site about this so
cannot confirm this. If anyone knows where it is, let me know!

If you already have the PDF you can use Adobe Acrobat to add the Tags.

Cheers, Karen

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Sep 04 2009 10:25AM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Hi Randy,

PDFs generated from Quark documents are always horrible with regard to
accessibility. I don't know about PageMaker but most programs of this nature
also produce horrible PDFs. Word and InDesign can produce relatively good
PDFs but only if the author knows what they are doing, which most don't.

There is currently no software that will automatically convert the documents
into accessible PDFs. It has to be done manually in Acrobat, and it can be
extremely difficult depending on the nature of the content and the program
it was authored with.

Acrobat has an autotagging feature but our experience is that it can only
cope with simple documents. On more complex documents it has been more
trouble than it is worth, and we actually never use it even on simple
documents.

We offer a service to create accessible PDFs or convert existing ones to be
accessible, and I suspect there are other people on the list who do so.

It is worth noting that there are dozens of factors that contribute to PDF
accessibility. The starting point is to correct the reading order and add
some semantic structure but there is much more you can do if you have the
time and budget. Our list of factors runs to a few A4 pages, and I can share
it if anyone wants to contact me off-list.

Regards,
Steve Green
Director
Test Partners Ltd

From: Karl Groves
Date: Fri, Sep 04 2009 12:10PM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Karlen Communications < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>Generally Adobe InDesign does a fair job of creating the Tags for a document
>exported to tagged PDF but you have to do some work as you design the
>document to get the most out of InDesign's capabilities.
>
>Check your version of PageMaker to see if you can use the export settings to
>create tagged PDF. Of course the Tags will depend on how the document was
>created and Adobe has some resources on their web site for creating
>accessible documents/InDesign based.
>
>I've heard that the most recent version of Quark will let you export to
>tagged PDF but can't find any documentation on their web site about this so
>cannot confirm this. If anyone knows where it is, let me know!
>
>If you already have the PDF you can use Adobe Acrobat to add the Tags.
>
>Cheers, Karen
>
>

From: Waltenberger, Lon (LNI)
Date: Tue, Sep 08 2009 3:05PM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Hi Randy,

Forgive me if I talk about stuff you already know.

Creating accessible PDFs from InDesign and other graphic-oriented
applications is difficult at best and usually impossible.

Find more info about accessibility using InDesign at
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/indesign/.

I agree with Steve Green for the most part.

PageMaker was not designed with accessibility in mind. Adobe alludes to
that if not directly states it on their site.

I can't speak to QuarkXpress but assume accessibility non-existent
because it too is designed to create products for print media only.

The best way to make PDFs accessible is to ensure the original document
is properly structured. Few understand the importance of this or know
how to accomplish it. It isn't difficult; it's merely a new way of doing
things.

For Microsoft Word, here's a start from Adobe at
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2008/03/reference_card_for_accessib
le.html.

Please know that neither Acrobat's Quick/Full Accessibility Checker nor
the Read Out Loud voice synthesizer can be trusted.

The checker does its best (kudos to Adobe for all of their work on
accessibility) but it's machine-based. It'll tell you that the PDF has
no problems because it sees tags throughout the PDF. However, the tags
could be, and probably are, scattered about the PDF in anything but
readable order.

Most of the time, from experience and reading it on Adobe's site, it's
best to remove the programmatically placed tags and manually tag the
document. Only knowledgeable human eyes can create accessible PDFs.

The Read Out Loud functionality is okay but it's not a robust screen
reader. According to Adobe it's about 90% as efficient as JAWS. Which
10% do you want to leave unknown?

The only true test of a document's accessibility for screen readers is
to visually follow a screen reader through the document. This ensures
complete coverage in logical reading order.

Freedom Scientific's EULA forbids using the JAWS demo for testing. I
find that disappointing.

GW Micro at http://www.gwmicro.com/ allows use of the Window-Eyes demo
for unlimited testing. They have a 30-minute limit that requires a
reboot to continue using. I applaud their generosity for testing but 30
minutes go by quickly until one becomes proficient using Window-Eyes.

NonVisual Desktop Access (NVDA) at http://www.nvda-project.org/ has a
free robust open source screen reader. Check out the flash drive
version. It runs from a thumb drive on any PC with a simple file
download. This is great for demonstrating screen readers to content
owners. You can add Microsoft Mike and Mary for a better audio
experience. And there's no time limit. Additionally, Adobe recently
announced support for NVDA's reader at
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/08/adobe_supports_open-source_
nvda.html.

I hope you find some of this useful.

From: Jablonski, James (LNI)
Date: Tue, Sep 08 2009 5:45PM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Lon,
I wish everyone's notes were so clear, educational and non-biased.
I applaud YOU!
James

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Sep 09 2009 4:50AM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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You can also use the Highlight Content in Acrobat to move through the Tags
Tree and see what the content on the page corresponds to. This helps
eliminate an adaptive technology specific quality assurance result.

In terms of InDesign and Quark based articles, document designers should
create styles for each structural element in the document, for example
headings, lists, and so forth. Then, even if the ability to export to tagged
PDF is wonky at least you can use the Role Map to make global reassignments
rather than having to manually edit the Tags.

Highlight Content in Acrobat is your best friend as it lets you move through
the document and visually compare the reading order with the Tag order. You
can also use Reflow or save the PDF as an accessible text file but I find
the use of Highlight Content a better method.

There are also issues with the accessibility full check that will give you
false positives or false negative. I use the full check as an indicator of
where problems may lie but not as the determinant of an accessible PDF.

I do workshops on creating accessible Word documents, documents for
repurposing to tagged PDF and have written a book for Word 2003 on creating
logical document structure/accessible Word docs. The principles can be
applied to any application from which you create a document. Creating well
structured documents is key.

I am doing a four part EASI webinar series on accessible and usable PDF
beginning September 10: http://easi.cc/clinic.htm#karenwebinar for anyone
interested.

Cheers, Karen

From: John E. Brandt
Date: Wed, Sep 09 2009 10:00AM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Thanks to all who have responded with this question and all of the wonderful
info provided. I am thinking we should find a way to collect all these notes
and post them somewhere for "all to see." This is one of the challenges of
listservs - hard to archive the content.

I am willing to put all of the comments in one of my blogs and/or create an
article on my website, but I want to make sure to give appropriate credit
and also recognize that someone may have already done that or is about to do
that on their own website. Also aware that some of you may have some
copyright issues.

Objections? Concerns? Reactions?

~j

John E. Brandt
Web Design, Development, Consultation
Augusta, Maine USA
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937 

From: Randall Pope
Date: Wed, Sep 09 2009 2:00PM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Please post it on your blog.

All: Many thanks for your suggestion. I will ask the person who use
QuarkPress to use html before converting it to PDF. It just might work
better this way. I will let you all know the result. Take care.

With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org

301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB

Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.

From: Waltenberger, Lon (LNI)
Date: Wed, Sep 09 2009 3:05PM
Subject: Re: Pagemaker or QuarkXPress and Accessible PDF Document
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Hi John,

I've no problems with posting my stuff elsewhere.

Indeed, I'm honored by your offer.

Thanks for asking.