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From: Richard Evans
Date: Tue, Nov 17 2009 3:10AM
Subject: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
No previous message | Next message →

Dear Webaim List Member,

I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web Accessibility and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at Swansea Metropolitan University – University of Wales.



The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do “accessibility” design actions conflict with those actions taken to optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine ranking pages (SERPS)?

I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an MS Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some accessibility issues.

Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and have hopefully overcome these issues.

I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/ replied to my survey could provide input to the project by completing the online questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d

The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you will feel able to assist me with this important research.



I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution and I would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.

With Best Regards,
Richard Evans

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Tue, Nov 17 2009 12:45PM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would possibly be
useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you examine
how search optimization functions technically, then explore the usual
variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you can
determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just going by
opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content accessible
increases search optimization since text and semantic relationships are
programmatically determinable from accessible, structured content, and
may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content. In fact,
by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes in to
content, the overall information content generally rises, increasing
search systems ability to correctly find and classify content, exactly
the opposite to your question.


A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts between
search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are they, and
how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a Web
content producer encode for best results for both sets of requirements.



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
To: Webaim
Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
compromise Search Engine Optimisation?


Dear Webaim List Member,

I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web Accessibility
and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.



The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
"accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken to
optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine ranking
pages (SERPS)?

I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an MS
Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some accessibility
issues.

Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and have
hopefully overcome these issues.

I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/ replied to
my survey could provide input to the project by completing the online
questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d

The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you will
feel able to assist me with this important research.



I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution and I
would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.

With Best Regards,
Richard Evans

From: Margit Link-Rodrigue
Date: Tue, Nov 17 2009 1:15PM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e., whether
accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to provide
insight into how different people approach this topic.

If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search optimization
then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO services
often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and hiding
text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of a page
or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on true
semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in keywords)
would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively affect SE
ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel for these
different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would possibly be
> useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you examine
> how search optimization functions technically, then explore the usual
> variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you can
> determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just going by
> opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content accessible
> increases search optimization since text and semantic relationships are
> programmatically determinable from accessible, structured content, and
> may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content. In fact,
> by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes in to
> content, the overall information content generally rises, increasing
> search systems ability to correctly find and classify content, exactly
> the opposite to your question.
>
>
> A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts between
> search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are they, and
> how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a Web
> content producer encode for best results for both sets of requirements.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> To: Webaim
> Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
>
> Dear Webaim List Member,
>
> I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web Accessibility
> and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
>
>
>
> The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken to
> optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine ranking
> pages (SERPS)?
>
> I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an MS
> Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some accessibility
> issues.
>
> Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and have
> hopefully overcome these issues.
>
> I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/ replied to
> my survey could provide input to the project by completing the online
> questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
>
> The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you will
> feel able to assist me with this important research.
>
>
>
> I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution and I
> would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
>
> With Best Regards,
> Richard Evans
>

From: Geof Collis
Date: Tue, Nov 17 2009 5:50PM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I think Richard can ask his questions anyway he feels appropriate for
HIS dissertation. :O)

cheers

Geof

At 03:13 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e., whether
>accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to provide
>insight into how different people approach this topic.
>
>If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search optimization
>then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
>probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO services
>often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and hiding
>text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of a page
>or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on true
>semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in keywords)
>would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively affect SE
>ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel for these
>different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
> > I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would possibly be
> > useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you examine
> > how search optimization functions technically, then explore the usual
> > variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you can
> > determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just going by
> > opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> > provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content accessible
> > increases search optimization since text and semantic relationships are
> > programmatically determinable from accessible, structured content, and
> > may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content. In fact,
> > by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes in to
> > content, the overall information content generally rises, increasing
> > search systems ability to correctly find and classify content, exactly
> > the opposite to your question.
> >
> >
> > A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts between
> > search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are they, and
> > how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a Web
> > content producer encode for best results for both sets of requirements.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> > To: Webaim
> > Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> > compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> >
> >
> > Dear Webaim List Member,
> >
> > I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web Accessibility
> > and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> > Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
> >
> >
> >
> > The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> > accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> > "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken to
> > optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine ranking
> > pages (SERPS)?
> >
> > I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an MS
> > Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some accessibility
> > issues.
> >
> > Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and have
> > hopefully overcome these issues.
> >
> > I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/ replied to
> > my survey could provide input to the project by completing the online
> > questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
> >
> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
> >
> > The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> > objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you will
> > feel able to assist me with this important research.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution and I
> > would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> > SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
> >
> > With Best Regards,
> > Richard Evans
> >

From: Richard Evans
Date: Wed, Nov 18 2009 3:05AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Allen,Thanks very much for your comments in relation to my survey. As part of the project I am considering technical issues, but as Margit later commented, this poll is aimed at trying to get a flavour of current peer opinions on both activities and their compatibility.
All the best,Richard
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:46:46 -0500
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
> I think Richard can ask his questions anyway he feels appropriate for
> HIS dissertation. :O)
>
> cheers
>
> Geof
>
> At 03:13 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e., whether
> >accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to provide
> >insight into how different people approach this topic.
> >
> >If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search optimization
> >then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
> >probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO services
> >often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and hiding
> >text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of a page
> >or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on true
> >semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in keywords)
> >would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively affect SE
> >ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel for these
> >different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> >
> > > I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would possibly be
> > > useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you examine
> > > how search optimization functions technically, then explore the usual
> > > variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you can
> > > determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just going by
> > > opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> > > provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content accessible
> > > increases search optimization since text and semantic relationships are
> > > programmatically determinable from accessible, structured content, and
> > > may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content. In fact,
> > > by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes in to
> > > content, the overall information content generally rises, increasing
> > > search systems ability to correctly find and classify content, exactly
> > > the opposite to your question.
> > >
> > >
> > > A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts between
> > > search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are they, and
> > > how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a Web
> > > content producer encode for best results for both sets of requirements.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> > > To: Webaim
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> > > compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Webaim List Member,
> > >
> > > I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web Accessibility
> > > and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> > > Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> > > accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> > > "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken to
> > > optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine ranking
> > > pages (SERPS)?
> > >
> > > I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an MS
> > > Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some accessibility
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and have
> > > hopefully overcome these issues.
> > >
> > > I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/ replied to
> > > my survey could provide input to the project by completing the online
> > > questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
> > >
> > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
> > >
> > > The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> > > objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you will
> > > feel able to assist me with this important research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution and I
> > > would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> > > SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
> > >
> > > With Best Regards,
> > > Richard Evans
> > >

From: Karl Groves
Date: Wed, Nov 18 2009 4:40AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

Richard,

One thing to be cautious of, when processing the results of your survey, is
that while your respondents may certainly be well informed on the topic of
accessibility they may not actually be qualified to speak on the topic of
SEO. I think that there are a lot of rather outdated opinions out there
among the web accessibility community regarding the SEO benefits of an
accessible site. There was a time when I could put up a site that was
"search engine friendly" and I would dominate my target keywords in a matter
of weeks. As the internet has grown and as Google PageRank has become
more important in the ranking of results, having a "search engine friendly"
website is really a secondary (or even tertiary) concern.

At the risk of getting people on this list up in arms, I'd say that if one's
sole goal was SEO/ SEM, their time & effort would be best spent on keyword
density and inbound links. The objective-proof-in-the-pudding on this
would be to perform an A/B test using identical content. Spend x amount of
hours ensuring the site is accessible for one version and spend that same
amount of hours generating high quality inbound links[1]. I would argue
that organic traffic from Google will be higher on the version where your
time was spent on building inbound links - and that the payoff for this
level of effort will be immediate. The Google patent itself will back me up
here.

1 - There is one caveat to this: If a site is produced in a way that puts up
barriers to search bots, then there will be obvious tangible benefits to
accessibility. I once did a site fix on a client's site that broke every
rule in the book. It was frames-based. It had a flash-based menu bar across
the top and a JavaScript "fly-out" menu on the left. They also had scores of
articles that were actually scans of articles written about them in
magazines. I took the site out of frames, fixed the navigation, added a site
map, got their content into actual HTML and made all the other sensible SEO
changes you can think of. When I started with that client, they had an Alexa
ranking of 1,450,000+. They went to just under 450,000 in under 3 months.
As well, on Google, Yahoo, and MSN searches previous to the changes made,
their website was ranked on the 3rd+ page. Now they are on the top 10 for
all of their target keywords and are often in the top 3.



Karl


> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:webaim-forum-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Richard Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:04 AM
> To: Webaim
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
>
> Hi Allen,Thanks very much for your comments in relation to my survey.
> As part of the project I am considering technical issues, but as Margit
> later commented, this poll is aimed at trying to get a flavour of
> current peer opinions on both activities and their compatibility.
> All the best,Richard
> > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:46:46 -0500
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> >
> > I think Richard can ask his questions anyway he feels appropriate for
> > HIS dissertation. :O)
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Geof
> >
> > At 03:13 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e.,
> whether
> > >accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to
> provide
> > >insight into how different people approach this topic.
> > >
> > >If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search
> optimization
> > >then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
> > >probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO
> services
> > >often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and
> hiding
> > >text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of
> a page
> > >or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on
> true
> > >semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in
> keywords)
> > >would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively
> affect SE
> > >ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel
> for these
> > >different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.
> > >
> > >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would
> possibly be
> > > > useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you
> examine
> > > > how search optimization functions technically, then explore the
> usual
> > > > variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you
> can
> > > > determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just
> going by
> > > > opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> > > > provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content
> accessible
> > > > increases search optimization since text and semantic
> relationships are
> > > > programmatically determinable from accessible, structured
> content, and
> > > > may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content.
> In fact,
> > > > by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes
> in to
> > > > content, the overall information content generally rises,
> increasing
> > > > search systems ability to correctly find and classify content,
> exactly
> > > > the opposite to your question.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts
> between
> > > > search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are
> they, and
> > > > how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a
> Web
> > > > content producer encode for best results for both sets of
> requirements.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> > > > To: Webaim
> > > > Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> > > > compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Webaim List Member,
> > > >
> > > > I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web
> Accessibility
> > > > and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> > > > Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> > > > accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> > > > "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken
> to
> > > > optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine
> ranking
> > > > pages (SERPS)?
> > > >
> > > > I have already written directly to a number of you and attached
> an MS
> > > > Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some
> accessibility
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey
> and have
> > > > hopefully overcome these issues.
> > > >
> > > > I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/
> replied to
> > > > my survey could provide input to the project by completing the
> online
> > > > questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
> > > >
> > > > The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> > > > objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you
> will
> > > > feel able to assist me with this important research.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution
> and I
> > > > would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> > > > SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
> > > >
> > > > With Best Regards,
> > > > Richard Evans
> > > >

From: Simius Puer
Date: Wed, Nov 18 2009 5:20AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes - do be cautious of advice. And just to prove the point (sorry Karl)
Google Page Rank is *not *important.

"Google has removed the Page Rank score from WebMaster tools.....This is
about a strong a signal as you can get from Google to say *Page Rank just
isn’t important*." I forget where I read this originally (probably SEOMoz)
but a full explanation is available here:
http://www.shcl.co.uk/blog/2009/10/google-page-rank-is-not-important.html


Richard, I know I have responded to your questionnaire previously but you
might be interested in a recent development - comments made by Google's Matt
Cutts at a convention in Las Vegas. He has hinted strongly that Page Load
Speed set to be Google’s next organic ranking factor! This has obvious
cross-over with accessibility (in so far as using CSS rather than images to
achieve design - not over/mis-using images and multimedia etc). Good
article on this at: http://bit.ly/kmr4Z

Regards

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Nov 18 2009 5:40AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I think you should also consider whether the site has paid for access or
click through/ads on other pages. I'm not sure, but can't you also pay to
improve your ranking?

This sounds like a great project. It also sounds like a lot of filtering to
find a usable answer. Have fun!

Cheers, Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: November-18-09 6:38 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
compromise Search Engine Optimisation?

Richard,

One thing to be cautious of, when processing the results of your survey, is
that while your respondents may certainly be well informed on the topic of
accessibility they may not actually be qualified to speak on the topic of
SEO. I think that there are a lot of rather outdated opinions out there
among the web accessibility community regarding the SEO benefits of an
accessible site. There was a time when I could put up a site that was
"search engine friendly" and I would dominate my target keywords in a matter
of weeks. As the internet has grown and as Google PageRank has become
more important in the ranking of results, having a "search engine friendly"
website is really a secondary (or even tertiary) concern.

At the risk of getting people on this list up in arms, I'd say that if one's
sole goal was SEO/ SEM, their time & effort would be best spent on keyword
density and inbound links. The objective-proof-in-the-pudding on this
would be to perform an A/B test using identical content. Spend x amount of
hours ensuring the site is accessible for one version and spend that same
amount of hours generating high quality inbound links[1]. I would argue
that organic traffic from Google will be higher on the version where your
time was spent on building inbound links - and that the payoff for this
level of effort will be immediate. The Google patent itself will back me up
here.

1 - There is one caveat to this: If a site is produced in a way that puts up
barriers to search bots, then there will be obvious tangible benefits to
accessibility. I once did a site fix on a client's site that broke every
rule in the book. It was frames-based. It had a flash-based menu bar across
the top and a JavaScript "fly-out" menu on the left. They also had scores of
articles that were actually scans of articles written about them in
magazines. I took the site out of frames, fixed the navigation, added a site
map, got their content into actual HTML and made all the other sensible SEO
changes you can think of. When I started with that client, they had an Alexa
ranking of 1,450,000+. They went to just under 450,000 in under 3 months.
As well, on Google, Yahoo, and MSN searches previous to the changes made,
their website was ranked on the 3rd+ page. Now they are on the top 10 for
all of their target keywords and are often in the top 3.



Karl


> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:webaim-forum-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Richard Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:04 AM
> To: Webaim
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
>
> Hi Allen,Thanks very much for your comments in relation to my survey.
> As part of the project I am considering technical issues, but as Margit
> later commented, this poll is aimed at trying to get a flavour of
> current peer opinions on both activities and their compatibility.
> All the best,Richard
> > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:46:46 -0500
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> >
> > I think Richard can ask his questions anyway he feels appropriate for
> > HIS dissertation. :O)
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Geof
> >
> > At 03:13 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e.,
> whether
> > >accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to
> provide
> > >insight into how different people approach this topic.
> > >
> > >If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search
> optimization
> > >then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
> > >probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO
> services
> > >often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and
> hiding
> > >text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of
> a page
> > >or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on
> true
> > >semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in
> keywords)
> > >would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively
> affect SE
> > >ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel
> for these
> > >different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.
> > >
> > >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would
> possibly be
> > > > useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you
> examine
> > > > how search optimization functions technically, then explore the
> usual
> > > > variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you
> can
> > > > determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just
> going by
> > > > opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> > > > provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content
> accessible
> > > > increases search optimization since text and semantic
> relationships are
> > > > programmatically determinable from accessible, structured
> content, and
> > > > may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content.
> In fact,
> > > > by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes
> in to
> > > > content, the overall information content generally rises,
> increasing
> > > > search systems ability to correctly find and classify content,
> exactly
> > > > the opposite to your question.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts
> between
> > > > search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are
> they, and
> > > > how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a
> Web
> > > > content producer encode for best results for both sets of
> requirements.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> > > > To: Webaim
> > > > Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> > > > compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Webaim List Member,
> > > >
> > > > I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web
> Accessibility
> > > > and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> > > > Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> > > > accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> > > > "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken
> to
> > > > optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine
> ranking
> > > > pages (SERPS)?
> > > >
> > > > I have already written directly to a number of you and attached
> an MS
> > > > Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some
> accessibility
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey
> and have
> > > > hopefully overcome these issues.
> > > >
> > > > I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/
> replied to
> > > > my survey could provide input to the project by completing the
> online
> > > > questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
> > > >
> > > > The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> > > > objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you
> will
> > > > feel able to assist me with this important research.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution
> and I
> > > > would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> > > > SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
> > > >
> > > > With Best Regards,
> > > > Richard Evans
> > > >

From: Karl Groves
Date: Wed, Nov 18 2009 7:35AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | Next message →

I knew as soon as I mentioned PageRank, someone would bring this up. I
wasn't attempting to claim that PageRank was the be-all-and-end-all of SEO.
I think that while it is interesting that Google has removed PageRank from
Webmaster Tools, I have yet to see any evidence that PageRank is no longer a
concern. I would certainly be suspicious of any claims stating that "
Google Page Rank is *not *important.", as it stands against reason that
PageRank would exist but not be important. Now, whether it has recently
become of lesser value certainly seems to be the case. But I can't find any
information from any source whatsoever that shows that PageRank has been
removed altogether and is therefore "not important".

At any rate, this is all sort of a red herring in that the topic of
conversation was SEO & Accessibility, not the value of PageRank.

Karl




> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:webaim-forum-
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Simius Puer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:20 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
> Yes - do be cautious of advice. And just to prove the point (sorry
> Karl)
> Google Page Rank is *not *important.
>
> "Google has removed the Page Rank score from WebMaster tools.....This
> is
> about a strong a signal as you can get from Google to say *Page Rank
> just
> isn't important*." I forget where I read this originally (probably
> SEOMoz)
> but a full explanation is available here:
> http://www.shcl.co.uk/blog/2009/10/google-page-rank-is-not-
> important.html
>
>
> Richard, I know I have responded to your questionnaire previously but
> you
> might be interested in a recent development - comments made by Google's
> Matt
> Cutts at a convention in Las Vegas. He has hinted strongly that Page
> Load
> Speed set to be Google's next organic ranking factor! This has obvious
> cross-over with accessibility (in so far as using CSS rather than
> images to
> achieve design - not over/mis-using images and multimedia etc). Good
> article on this at: http://bit.ly/kmr4Z
>
> Regards
>
>
>

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Thu, Nov 19 2009 9:25AM
Subject: Re: MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
← Previous message | No next message

Good luck.
Knowing the perception of the stakeholders in the process helps define
the gaps between perceived difficulty and an objectively evaluated level
of difficulty, or conflicting requirements, so does help develop sound
strategies for bringing the two in to alignment.


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:04 AM
To: Webaim
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
compromise Search Engine Optimisation?


Hi Allen,Thanks very much for your comments in relation to my survey. As
part of the project I am considering technical issues, but as Margit
later commented, this poll is aimed at trying to get a flavour of
current peer opinions on both activities and their compatibility.
All the best,Richard
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:46:46 -0500
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
>
> I think Richard can ask his questions anyway he feels appropriate for
> HIS dissertation. :O)
>
> cheers
>
> Geof
>
> At 03:13 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >I think the opinion poll is not intended to answer a question (i.e.,
whether
> >accessibility compromises search engine ranking), but it is meant to
provide
> >insight into how different people approach this topic.
> >
> >If your opinion is that accessible web content increases search
optimization
> >then that's one of many possible responses to the poll. Others would
> >probably argue from the opposite end and point out that paid SEO
services
> >often try to trick search engines by abusing the title attribute and
hiding
> >text on a page and so on. Taking these misleading elements out of a
page
> >or making them work as intended (e.g. title attributes that focus on
true
> >semantic value and not their techniqual potential to sneak in
keywords)
> >would certainly increase accessiblity, but potentially negatively
affect SE
> >ranking. The author of the opinion poll simply wants to get a feel
for these
> >different points of view, thus the name opinion poll.
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Hoffman, Allen
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> >
> > > I'd like to know how an opinion poll for this topic would possibly
be
> > > useful as knowledge to answer this technical question. If you
examine
> > > how search optimization functions technically, then explore the
usual
> > > variations on correctly coded Web content for accessibility, you
can
> > > determine if the requirements have technical conflicts. Just
going by
> > > opinions and experiences is certainly not a real answer to this
> > > provocative question. My opinion is that making Web content
accessible
> > > increases search optimization since text and semantic
relationships are
> > > programmatically determinable from accessible, structured content,
and
> > > may not be from unstructured, not intentionally coded content. In
fact,
> > > by intentionally encoding semantic meanings and text attributes in
to
> > > content, the overall information content generally rises,
increasing
> > > search systems ability to correctly find and classify content,
exactly
> > > the opposite to your question.
> > >
> > >
> > > A more interesting question is if there are technical conflicts
between
> > > search optimization and accessibility requirements, what are they,
and
> > > how can they more effectively be reconciled, or how best can a Web
> > > content producer encode for best results for both sets of
requirements.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Richard Evans [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 AM
> > > To: Webaim
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] MSc Research - Does making a Website Accessible
> > > compromise Search Engine Optimisation?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Webaim List Member,
> > >
> > > I am currently completing a Research Dissertation into Web
Accessibility
> > > and Search Engine Optimisation for an MSc Degree in E-commerce at
> > > Swansea Metropolitan University - University of Wales.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The basis of the research is that it is vital to make websites
> > > accessible to as wide a range of users as possible, but do
> > > "accessibility" design actions conflict with those actions taken
to
> > > optimise websites so that they reach the top of search engine
ranking
> > > pages (SERPS)?
> > >
> > > I have already written directly to a number of you and attached an
MS
> > > Word questionnaire - unfortunately, this presented some
accessibility
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > Therefore, I have now placed the questionnaire on SurveyMonkey and
have
> > > hopefully overcome these issues.
> > >
> > > I would be grateful if anyone who has not already received/
replied to
> > > my survey could provide input to the project by completing the
online
> > > questionnaire which can be accessed at the following address:
> > >
> > > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S5SSS22U01WZbOj7Lm3mxw_3d_3d
> > >
> > > The questionnaire is designed specifically to allow me to reach
> > > objective conclusions on the above question and I trust that you
will
> > > feel able to assist me with this important research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to thank you in anticipation for your contribution
and I
> > > would be grateful to receive your completed questionnaire on
> > > SurveyMonkey by Friday 20 November.
> > >
> > > With Best Regards,
> > > Richard Evans
> > >