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Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Despain, Dallas
Date: Wed, Feb 03 2010 3:54PM
Subject: (no subject)
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Hi everybody,
I'm a developer trying to make sure that our web-based products are as accessible as possible. We have run into a discrepancy between jaws 10 and jaws 11.
The "problem" is that in jaws 11, when you use the tab key to focus on a link that contains both an image and text (the image does have alt text) jaws only reads the text, not the alt text of the image. However if you use the arrow keys to read the link, both the alt text and link text are announced as expected.
Interestingly, the order is important. That is, if the text comes first the text is announced but not the alt text. If the which comes first, just the image alt text is announced.
If you'd like to see this in action, it can be observed in example 7 of the following webaim.org page: http://webaim.org/techniques/alttext/#functional
The link in question reads "download the employment application" and also contains an image with alt text= "sample image"
So my question for you is: is this a known issue? I'm assuming that since I cannot reproduce this in jaws 10, this behavior must be new and unexpected but common. I'm not exactly sure how we could fix it, since our HTML is correct. Which is more common, the tab key or the arrow keys? Does this issue cause problems for jaws users?
Thank you very much for any insight you could offer.
Sincerely,
Dallas Despain
RightNow Technologies
From: Jared Smith
Date: Wed, Feb 03 2010 4:42PM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY
significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an
image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these
items within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link
that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in
a new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users
navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product
description both within the same link, only the image will be
identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays
and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect
either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Jon Brundage
Date: Wed, Feb 03 2010 4:45PM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Dallas,
I would suggest that since the link has text, use an empty ALT attribute for
the image, as adding ALT text would be redundant. The screen reader does not
need to read the link destination twice, just as a visual user does not need
to read the same information twice.
Consider the following code:
<A href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="privacyIcon.gif"
alt="Privacy Policy"></a>
A screen reader would pronounce "privacy policy" twice which is an
annoyance.
Since the link has text contained within the href tag, let the text do the
job of conveying the destination. The following makes for a better user
experience:
<A href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="privacyIcon.gif"
alt=""></a>
It also makes the JAWS version issue a moot point.
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Despain, Dallas" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:54 PM
Subject: [WebAIM] (no subject)
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm a developer trying to make sure that our web-based products are as
> accessible as possible. We have run into a discrepancy between jaws 10 and
> jaws 11.
>
> The "problem" is that in jaws 11, when you use the tab key to focus on a
> link that contains both an image and text (the image does have alt text)
> jaws only reads the text, not the alt text of the image. However if you
> use the arrow keys to read the link, both the alt text and link text are
> announced as expected.
>
> Interestingly, the order is important. That is, if the text comes first
> the text is announced but not the alt text. If the which comes first, just
> the image alt text is announced.
>
> If you'd like to see this in action, it can be observed in example 7 of
> the following webaim.org page:
> http://webaim.org/techniques/alttext/#functional
>
> The link in question reads "download the employment application" and also
> contains an image with alt text= "sample image"
>
> So my question for you is: is this a known issue? I'm assuming that since
> I cannot reproduce this in jaws 10, this behavior must be new and
> unexpected but common. I'm not exactly sure how we could fix it, since our
> HTML is correct. Which is more common, the tab key or the arrow keys? Does
> this issue cause problems for jaws users?
>
> Thank you very much for any insight you could offer.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dallas Despain
> RightNow Technologies
>
>
From: Jared Smith
Date: Wed, Feb 03 2010 4:51PM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Jon Brundage < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Consider the following code:
>
> <A href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="privacyIcon.gif"
> alt="Privacy Policy"></a>
>
> A screen reader would pronounce "privacy policy" twice which is an
> annoyance.
Right, but
<a href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="external.gif"
alt="Link opens in a new window"></a>
would result in only "Privacy Policy" being read.
And
<a href="app.doc">Employment Application <img src="word.gif" alt="Word
Document"></a>
would result in the important file type information being omitted.
And
<a href="page.html"><img src="important.jpg" alt="IMPORTANT!"> If you
don't click this link now, a kitten will die!</a>
could result in the untimely death of a kitten... and none of us want
that, do we?
This bug is resulting in cases of significant content being lost.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Jon Brundage
Date: Wed, Feb 03 2010 5:00PM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
That is true Jared but I was only referencing the situation where the link
text and image convey the same information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Jon Brundage < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Consider the following code:
>
> <A href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="privacyIcon.gif"
> alt="Privacy Policy"></a>
>
> A screen reader would pronounce "privacy policy" twice which is an
> annoyance.
Right, but
<a href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="external.gif"
alt="Link opens in a new window"></a>
would result in only "Privacy Policy" being read.
And
<a href="app.doc">Employment Application <img src="word.gif" alt="Word
Document"></a>
would result in the important file type information being omitted.
And
<a href="page.html"><img src="important.jpg" alt="IMPORTANT!"> If you
don't click this link now, a kitten will die!</a>
could result in the untimely death of a kitten... and none of us want
that, do we?
This bug is resulting in cases of significant content being lost.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Léonie Watson
Date: Thu, Feb 04 2010 2:33AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
"Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that."
There is a closed beta testing programme for Jaws. I've filed a bug with FS and will keep you posted on any response.
Regards,
Léonie.
--
Nomensa - humanising technology
Léonie Watson | Director of Accessibility
t. +44 (0)117 929 7333
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: 03 February 2010 23:41
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these items within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in a new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product description both within the same link, only the image will be identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Julie Romanowski
Date: Thu, Feb 04 2010 5:09AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
Jared, what build are you using for JAWS 11? I'm using JAWS 11.0.756
32-bit
(http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/jaws-downloads.asp) and
testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text
and image alt text correctly.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY
significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an
image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these items
within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link
that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in a
new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users
navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product
description both within the same link, only the image will be
identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays
and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect
either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Léonie Watson
Date: Thu, Feb 04 2010 5:39AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
"I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit... and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly."
Is Jaws reading the link correctly when you tab onto it? Using one of the code examples Jared provided previously, I've run a few quick checks with Jaws 11.056 in IE8, FF3.5 and FF3.6 on an XP Pro 32bit machine.
<a href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="external.gif"
alt="Link opens in a new window"></a></p>
In each case the results appear to be the same. When tabbed onto, Jaws only reads the text part of the link. When given focus with the cursor keys, or viewed through the links list dialogue, Jaws reads both the text and alternative text elements of the link.
Regards,
Léonie.
--
Nomensa - humanising technology
Léonie Watson | Director of Accessibility
t. +44 (0)117 929 7333
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Romanowski
Sent: 04 February 2010 12:10
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
Jared, what build are you using for JAWS 11? I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit
(http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/jaws-downloads.asp) and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these items within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in a new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product description both within the same link, only the image will be identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Julie Romanowski
Date: Thu, Feb 04 2010 5:54AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | Next message →
My mistake. It works when selecting the links via the Links List and when reading through the links, but not when the links in question are tabbed to. I'll send the defect information to our Freedom Scientific contact ASAP.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Léonie Watson
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:39 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
"I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit... and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly."
Is Jaws reading the link correctly when you tab onto it? Using one of the code examples Jared provided previously, I've run a few quick checks with Jaws 11.056 in IE8, FF3.5 and FF3.6 on an XP Pro 32bit machine.
<a href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="external.gif"
alt="Link opens in a new window"></a></p>
In each case the results appear to be the same. When tabbed onto, Jaws only reads the text part of the link. When given focus with the cursor keys, or viewed through the links list dialogue, Jaws reads both the text and alternative text elements of the link.
Regards,
Léonie.
--
Nomensa - humanising technology
Léonie Watson | Director of Accessibility
t. +44 (0)117 929 7333
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Romanowski
Sent: 04 February 2010 12:10
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
Jared, what build are you using for JAWS 11? I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit
(http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/jaws-downloads.asp) and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these items within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in a new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product description both within the same link, only the image will be identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Despain, Dallas
Date: Thu, Feb 04 2010 10:09AM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
← Previous message | No next message
Thanks everyone! I've submitted an incident with them as well Inquiry #195205
I'm sure they'll fix it soon.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Romanowski
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:53 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
My mistake. It works when selecting the links via the Links List and when reading through the links, but not when the links in question are tabbed to. I'll send the defect information to our Freedom Scientific contact ASAP.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Léonie Watson
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:39 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
"I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit... and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly."
Is Jaws reading the link correctly when you tab onto it? Using one of the code examples Jared provided previously, I've run a few quick checks with Jaws 11.056 in IE8, FF3.5 and FF3.6 on an XP Pro 32bit machine.
<a href="privacyPolicy.html">Privacy Policy <img src="external.gif"
alt="Link opens in a new window"></a></p>
In each case the results appear to be the same. When tabbed onto, Jaws only reads the text part of the link. When given focus with the cursor keys, or viewed through the links list dialogue, Jaws reads both the text and alternative text elements of the link.
Regards,
Léonie.
--
Nomensa - humanising technology
Léonie Watson | Director of Accessibility
t. +44 (0)117 929 7333
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Romanowski
Sent: 04 February 2010 12:10
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
Jared, what build are you using for JAWS 11? I'm using JAWS 11.0.756 32-bit
(http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/jaws-downloads.asp) and testing with IE7, IE8 and Firefox 3.5.6, and JAWS is reading the text and image alt text correctly.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] (no subject)
I am experiencing the same behavior in JAWS 11. This is a VERY significant bug that will render MUCH web content inaccessible to JAWS
11 users.
I created several test cases and all show that if you have text and an image with alt text within the same link, only the first of these items within the link will be read by JAWS as you navigate by links
(tab) through the page. It will always ignore anything within the link that comes after the first text item or the first image.
For example, this would render all properly coded "This link opens in a new window" or "PDF File", etc. icons as inaccessible to users navigating by links. If you had a product image and a product description both within the same link, only the image will be identified.
Interestingly, if you open the list of links (JAWS + F7), it displays and reads the entire content of the link appropriately.
It does this in both Firefox and IE. This bug is not present in JAWS 10.
Daniel noted the "Filter Duplicate Links" option, but it has no effect either way.
Could someone with connections inform Freedom Scientific of this.
Nobody from there is subscribed to this list, if you can believe that.
Jared Smith
WebAIM