E-mail List Archives
Thread: Screen readers and nested tables
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Birkir Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Feb 17 2010 8:54PM
Subject: Screen readers and nested tables
No previous message | Next message →
Hi list
I am brushing up on my html and WCAG knowledge and came across a table with
nested elements inside, another table and a list.
I presume this is not a very common occurance and probably not practical,
since I have to assume this looks pretty weird to a sighted person (I am
blind). However I notice that my Jaws (version 8) does not recognize the
outermost table, even if the <table> attribute is used in it, it only sees
the nested table.
If anyone can explain why, or if this is a problem, or it could be coded
differently so that screen readers recognize the outermost table as a table,
or can tell me this is never used and not a case I need to ever consider I
would very much appreciate it.
The link to the example is
http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_table_elements
Thanks
-Birkir
From: Don Mauck
Date: Thu, Feb 18 2010 11:06AM
Subject: Re: Screen readers and nested tables
← Previous message | Next message →
There was a problem in earlier versions of JAWS regarding nested tables. They made a patch fix in JAWS 9 but they did not back port it to version 8.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birkir Gunnarsson [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Screen readers and nested tables
Hi list
I am brushing up on my html and WCAG knowledge and came across a table with
nested elements inside, another table and a list.
I presume this is not a very common occurance and probably not practical,
since I have to assume this looks pretty weird to a sighted person (I am
blind). However I notice that my Jaws (version 8) does not recognize the
outermost table, even if the <table> attribute is used in it, it only sees
the nested table.
If anyone can explain why, or if this is a problem, or it could be coded
differently so that screen readers recognize the outermost table as a table,
or can tell me this is never used and not a case I need to ever consider I
would very much appreciate it.
The link to the example is
http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_table_elements
Thanks
-Birkir
From: Randall Pope
Date: Fri, Feb 19 2010 11:03AM
Subject: Re: Screen readers and nested tables
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Birkir,
I think that FS has resolved the nesting table issue with recent version of
JAWS. From the complaints that I received, I do know that it is still an
issue with those using BrailleNote. But I need to go back and find out if
they are using the latest equipment.
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:53 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] Screen readers and nested tables
Hi list
I am brushing up on my html and WCAG knowledge and came across a table with
nested elements inside, another table and a list.
I presume this is not a very common occurance and probably not practical,
since I have to assume this looks pretty weird to a sighted person (I am
blind). However I notice that my Jaws (version 8) does not recognize the
outermost table, even if the <table> attribute is used in it, it only sees
the nested table.
If anyone can explain why, or if this is a problem, or it could be coded
differently so that screen readers recognize the outermost table as a table,
or can tell me this is never used and not a case I need to ever consider I
would very much appreciate it.
The link to the example is
http://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_table_elements
Thanks
-Birkir
From: Simius Puer
Date: Fri, Feb 19 2010 11:15AM
Subject: Re: Screen readers and nested tables
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Birkir
There is no real reason why anyone should put a table within a table *in
most common scenarios*. Even if assistive software can "render" it
correctly it is likely to be less than accessible.
The example on W3Schools is technically acceptable within the realms of code
validity but I think it is simply meant to represent an example - not best
practice.
In terms of accessibility tables should really be kept as simple as
possible.
Sadly there is a huge gap between this ideal world where developers all know
what they are doing and reality. So to answer your question it really
depends on if you are talking about the world at large, or just your own
code. If it is the latter then simply avoid nested tables, and complex
tables in general.
Have a good weekend!
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Feb 19 2010 11:45AM
Subject: Re: Screen readers and nested tables
← Previous message | No next message
Whether developers should or should not use nested tables is not the point. The point is that they do and AT packages should work with them. As I said acouple of days ago, this was a known issue in earlier versions of JAWS and has been fixe as a requested onlly patch for JAWS 9 and is available starting in JAWS ten.
-----Original Message-----
From: Simius Puer [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:15 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen readers and nested tables
Hi Birkir
There is no real reason why anyone should put a table within a table *in
most common scenarios*. Even if assistive software can "render" it
correctly it is likely to be less than accessible.
The example on W3Schools is technically acceptable within the realms of code
validity but I think it is simply meant to represent an example - not best
practice.
In terms of accessibility tables should really be kept as simple as
possible.
Sadly there is a huge gap between this ideal world where developers all know
what they are doing and reality. So to answer your question it really
depends on if you are talking about the world at large, or just your own
code. If it is the latter then simply avoid nested tables, and complex
tables in general.
Have a good weekend!