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Thread: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 19

Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)

From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 1:15PM
Subject: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 19
No previous message | Next message →

In the draft Section 508 standards refresh, interactive content, and
electronic documents both have associated standards. PDF can encompass
either function, dependent upon features in content. See chapters 4 and
5 in the Section 508 update at the Access Board's Web site,
http://www.access-board.gov.

The standards are intended to be technology neutral, so it won't say
"PDF's must be accessible", it is not partial to one format over another
on a "brand" preference, but does set forth the standards any such
technology must include and meet to be considered compliant, or
conforming.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:00 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 19

Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://list.webaim.org/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

You can reach the person managing the list at
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."

From: Collins Flannery
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 1:15PM
Subject: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21
← Previous message | Next message →

Can someone attach the directions for making a PDF accessible? I have all
the Adobe tools, but nothing online was succinct in terms of giving step by
step instructions.

Thank you ~
Collins Flannery
Arrowpoint Corp

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM, < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Hoffman, Allen)
> 2. Re: alt tags in PDF's (Andrew Kirkpatrick)
> 3. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508 (Ted)
> 4. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Julie Romanowski)
> 5. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Langum, Michael J)
> 6. Tables with a checkbox column (James Kennard)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:14:52 -0400
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> PDF content accessibility should not be dependent upon a particular
> screen reader product. If the content is tagged appropriately to meet
> accessibility requirements, and the PDF "reader" renders the information
> for inspection by the assistive technology--and then the assistive
> technology doesn't utilize the information provided, well, time to look
> at another technology.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Mauck [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:39 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> I'd disagree with that, it depends on the screen reader.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monir ElRayes [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:09 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> In addition to what Allen said, it is interesting to note that there are
> two
> other factors that are often confused with whether a given document
> format
> (e.g. pdf) is accessible:
>
> 1) Does the document format have internal infrastructure that supports
> accessibility? PDF and HTML do for all known accessibility requirements
> related to various document elements (e.g. images, tables, lists etc).
> Interestingly MS Word - which many people view as inherently more
> accessible
> than PDF- does not have sufficient internal infrastructure to support
> some
> key elements (e.g. tables)
>
> 2) How difficult is it to make a given format accessible (i.e. to author
> it
> correctly)? Much of the confusion about the accessibility of PDF is a
> result
> of the fact that it is very hard for an average user to make a PDF
> document
> accessible relying solely on the tools provided by Acrobat Pro or
> Standard,
> not to mention the fact that many PDFs don't even originate in Acrobat.
> Tools like CommonLook (for document remediation in Acrobat
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/cl_s508_adobe.aspx ) and PAW (for
> authoring accessible PDF from MS Word
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/PAW.aspx ) can help overcome the
> inherent difficulty in making PDF accessible.
>
>
> Monir ElRayes
> President
> NetCentric Technologies
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Hoffman,
> Allen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:31 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Can someone point to the part of the refresh of the Section 508
> standards that would say "PDF is accessible"?
>
> In my view, content in PDF format can be accessible if authored
> correctly.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karlen Communications [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:53 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Ironically there is a company called JAWS that has had PDF creation
> software
> for years.
> http://www.jawspdf.com/
>
> They didn't used to be interested in accessibility but I haven't checked
> them out recently.
>
> I don't see anything about accessibility on their site.
>
> I found them by accident in the early days of a GUI Internet when
> looking
> for screen reader information. :-)
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Christophe
> Strobbe
> Sent: March-22-10 6:31 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
>
> At 05:37 20/03/2010, John Foliot wrote:
> >(...)
> >We know that there are legacy PDF's out there that will not be
> accessible,
> >and likely a few still being created today that are not as rich as
> >Acrobat/Live Design could produce. We can only blame that on history
> and
> >poor training though, right? Is this a problem with "PDF" or of poor
> >authoring practice and the early history of PDF? (...)
>
> There is still a lot of work to be done to improve authoring
> practices. I am involved in several projects funded by the European
> Commission that had to rework deliverables because the PDF files were
> not accessible or not tagged. I had to teach people how to use
> Heading styles in MS Word and how to generate tagged PDF from
> OpenOffice.org - even more than a year after the start of these
> projects. These projects, as all the work I do, focus on
> accessibility for people with disabilities. There is a cruel irony in
> this.
>
> Lesson learnt: provide tutorials about accessibile authoring
> practices at the start of such projects.
>
>
> >Interesting note about cheap alternatives that generate pseudo-PDFs
> that
> >lack access features. Are you aware of any examples that I could see?
> It
> >would be interesting to see what if anything they do produce - perhaps
> we
> >should go after those software companies instead - I wonder aloud if
> ISO
> >could modify the once proprietary but now open PDF standard to place a
> >stronger insistence on accessibility to be called "PDF" (worth asking,
> >no?). If bad software tools (versus a file format) is the culprit, we
> >should point that out with proof, and attack the real problem. Most
> large
> >organizations that I know of, the majority will not buy faulty tools if
> >they can avoid it, so the market place can be our friend if we are
> smart
> >about it.
>
> John, are you looking for overviews like the following?
> * JISC TechDIS: "Coparison of Free PDF Software" (no date)
> <http://www.techdis.ac.uk/index.php?p=3_20_2_2>;
> * "Accessibility testing 14 PDF creation tools" (12 September 2009):
>
> <http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2009/pdf_conversion_tools.html
> >.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe Strobbe
>
>
>
> --
> Christophe Strobbe
> K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
> Research Group on Document Architectures
> Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
> B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
> BELGIUM
> tel: +32 16 32 85 51
> http://www.docarch.be/
> ---
> "Better products and services through end-user empowerment"
> http://www.usem-net.eu/
> ---
> Please don't invite me to LinkedIn, Facebook, Quechup or other
> "social networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but
> I haven't.
>
>

From: John E. Brandt
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 1:33PM
Subject: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21
← Previous message | Next message →

Here are some resources. The first reference is from the Adobe accessibility
training site. I have written several articles on accessible documents which
may be found on the Maine CITE website (the second reference). There are a
number of folks in this list that also have resources and I am sure you will
hear from them as well. The last reference is from the AcrobatUsers group.
They have some videos on there that will be helpful

http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/training.html
http://mainecite.org/awd/accdocs.html
http://www.acrobatusers.com/topics/accessibility

And while you're at it, don't stop with just trying to make your PDFs
accessible. All of your documents should be accessible including Word,
PowerPoint and webpages.

~j

John E. Brandt
jebswebs.com
Augusta, ME USA
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.jebswebs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Collins Flannery
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 2:14 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21

Can someone attach the directions for making a PDF accessible? I have all
the Adobe tools, but nothing online was succinct in terms of giving step by
step instructions.

Thank you ~
Collins Flannery
Arrowpoint Corp

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM,
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Hoffman, Allen)
> 2. Re: alt tags in PDF's (Andrew Kirkpatrick)
> 3. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508 (Ted)
> 4. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Julie Romanowski)
> 5. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Langum, Michael J)
> 6. Tables with a checkbox column (James Kennard)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:14:52 -0400
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> PDF content accessibility should not be dependent upon a particular
> screen reader product. If the content is tagged appropriately to meet
> accessibility requirements, and the PDF "reader" renders the information
> for inspection by the assistive technology--and then the assistive
> technology doesn't utilize the information provided, well, time to look
> at another technology.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Mauck [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:39 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> I'd disagree with that, it depends on the screen reader.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monir ElRayes [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:09 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> In addition to what Allen said, it is interesting to note that there are
> two
> other factors that are often confused with whether a given document
> format
> (e.g. pdf) is accessible:
>
> 1) Does the document format have internal infrastructure that supports
> accessibility? PDF and HTML do for all known accessibility requirements
> related to various document elements (e.g. images, tables, lists etc).
> Interestingly MS Word - which many people view as inherently more
> accessible
> than PDF- does not have sufficient internal infrastructure to support
> some
> key elements (e.g. tables)
>
> 2) How difficult is it to make a given format accessible (i.e. to author
> it
> correctly)? Much of the confusion about the accessibility of PDF is a
> result
> of the fact that it is very hard for an average user to make a PDF
> document
> accessible relying solely on the tools provided by Acrobat Pro or
> Standard,
> not to mention the fact that many PDFs don't even originate in Acrobat.
> Tools like CommonLook (for document remediation in Acrobat
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/cl_s508_adobe.aspx ) and PAW (for
> authoring accessible PDF from MS Word
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/PAW.aspx ) can help overcome the
> inherent difficulty in making PDF accessible.
>
>
> Monir ElRayes
> President
> NetCentric Technologies
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Hoffman,
> Allen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:31 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Can someone point to the part of the refresh of the Section 508
> standards that would say "PDF is accessible"?
>
> In my view, content in PDF format can be accessible if authored
> correctly.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karlen Communications [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:53 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Ironically there is a company called JAWS that has had PDF creation
> software
> for years.
> http://www.jawspdf.com/
>
> They didn't used to be interested in accessibility but I haven't checked
> them out recently.
>
> I don't see anything about accessibility on their site.
>
> I found them by accident in the early days of a GUI Internet when
> looking
> for screen reader information. :-)
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Christophe
> Strobbe
> Sent: March-22-10 6:31 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
>
> At 05:37 20/03/2010, John Foliot wrote:
> >(...)
> >We know that there are legacy PDF's out there that will not be
> accessible,
> >and likely a few still being created today that are not as rich as
> >Acrobat/Live Design could produce. We can only blame that on history
> and
> >poor training though, right? Is this a problem with "PDF" or of poor
> >authoring practice and the early history of PDF? (...)
>
> There is still a lot of work to be done to improve authoring
> practices. I am involved in several projects funded by the European
> Commission that had to rework deliverables because the PDF files were
> not accessible or not tagged. I had to teach people how to use
> Heading styles in MS Word and how to generate tagged PDF from
> OpenOffice.org - even more than a year after the start of these
> projects. These projects, as all the work I do, focus on
> accessibility for people with disabilities. There is a cruel irony in
> this.
>
> Lesson learnt: provide tutorials about accessibile authoring
> practices at the start of such projects.
>
>
> >Interesting note about cheap alternatives that generate pseudo-PDFs
> that
> >lack access features. Are you aware of any examples that I could see?
> It
> >would be interesting to see what if anything they do produce - perhaps
> we
> >should go after those software companies instead - I wonder aloud if
> ISO
> >could modify the once proprietary but now open PDF standard to place a
> >stronger insistence on accessibility to be called "PDF" (worth asking,
> >no?). If bad software tools (versus a file format) is the culprit, we
> >should point that out with proof, and attack the real problem. Most
> large
> >organizations that I know of, the majority will not buy faulty tools if
> >they can avoid it, so the market place can be our friend if we are
> smart
> >about it.
>
> John, are you looking for overviews like the following?
> * JISC TechDIS: "Coparison of Free PDF Software" (no date)
> <http://www.techdis.ac.uk/index.php?p=3_20_2_2>;
> * "Accessibility testing 14 PDF creation tools" (12 September 2009):
>
> <http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2009/pdf_conversion_tools.html
> >.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe Strobbe
>
>
>
> --
> Christophe Strobbe
> K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
> Research Group on Document Architectures
> Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
> B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
> BELGIUM
> tel: +32 16 32 85 51
> http://www.docarch.be/
> ---
> "Better products and services through end-user empowerment"
> http://www.usem-net.eu/
> ---
> Please don't invite me to LinkedIn, Facebook, Quechup or other
> "social networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but
> I haven't.
>
>

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:00AM
Subject: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21
← Previous message | Next message →

...And I've written a book now in its second edition on how to create and
repair PDF documents.
In the US it can be purchased from IRTI:
http://www.irti.net/store/product240.html You might want to call them and
ensure you get the second edition as their web page for the book isn't
updated to show the new edition.
Or you can purchase it directly from me:
http://www.karlencommunications.com/products.htm The difference is that I
can't do credit cards. Although not sure IRTI can do international sales.

The book is tagged PDF only. If you have questions please contact me.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of John E. Brandt
Sent: March-26-10 2:33 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21

Here are some resources. The first reference is from the Adobe accessibility
training site. I have written several articles on accessible documents which
may be found on the Maine CITE website (the second reference). There are a
number of folks in this list that also have resources and I am sure you will
hear from them as well. The last reference is from the AcrobatUsers group.
They have some videos on there that will be helpful

http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/training.html
http://mainecite.org/awd/accdocs.html
http://www.acrobatusers.com/topics/accessibility

And while you're at it, don't stop with just trying to make your PDFs
accessible. All of your documents should be accessible including Word,
PowerPoint and webpages.

~j

John E. Brandt
jebswebs.com
Augusta, ME USA
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.jebswebs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Collins Flannery
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 2:14 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 21

Can someone attach the directions for making a PDF accessible? I have all
the Adobe tools, but nothing online was succinct in terms of giving step by
step instructions.

Thank you ~
Collins Flannery
Arrowpoint Corp

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM,
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Hoffman, Allen)
> 2. Re: alt tags in PDF's (Andrew Kirkpatrick)
> 3. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508 (Ted)
> 4. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Julie Romanowski)
> 5. Re: PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> (Langum, Michael J)
> 6. Tables with a checkbox column (James Kennard)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Hoffman, Allen" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:14:52 -0400
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
> PDF content accessibility should not be dependent upon a particular
> screen reader product. If the content is tagged appropriately to meet
> accessibility requirements, and the PDF "reader" renders the information
> for inspection by the assistive technology--and then the assistive
> technology doesn't utilize the information provided, well, time to look
> at another technology.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Mauck [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:39 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> I'd disagree with that, it depends on the screen reader.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Monir ElRayes [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:09 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> In addition to what Allen said, it is interesting to note that there are
> two
> other factors that are often confused with whether a given document
> format
> (e.g. pdf) is accessible:
>
> 1) Does the document format have internal infrastructure that supports
> accessibility? PDF and HTML do for all known accessibility requirements
> related to various document elements (e.g. images, tables, lists etc).
> Interestingly MS Word - which many people view as inherently more
> accessible
> than PDF- does not have sufficient internal infrastructure to support
> some
> key elements (e.g. tables)
>
> 2) How difficult is it to make a given format accessible (i.e. to author
> it
> correctly)? Much of the confusion about the accessibility of PDF is a
> result
> of the fact that it is very hard for an average user to make a PDF
> document
> accessible relying solely on the tools provided by Acrobat Pro or
> Standard,
> not to mention the fact that many PDFs don't even originate in Acrobat.
> Tools like CommonLook (for document remediation in Acrobat
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/cl_s508_adobe.aspx ) and PAW (for
> authoring accessible PDF from MS Word
> http://www.net-centric.com/products/PAW.aspx ) can help overcome the
> inherent difficulty in making PDF accessible.
>
>
> Monir ElRayes
> President
> NetCentric Technologies
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Hoffman,
> Allen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:31 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Can someone point to the part of the refresh of the Section 508
> standards that would say "PDF is accessible"?
>
> In my view, content in PDF format can be accessible if authored
> correctly.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karlen Communications [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:53 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
> Ironically there is a company called JAWS that has had PDF creation
> software
> for years.
> http://www.jawspdf.com/
>
> They didn't used to be interested in accessibility but I haven't checked
> them out recently.
>
> I don't see anything about accessibility on their site.
>
> I found them by accident in the early days of a GUI Internet when
> looking
> for screen reader information. :-)
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Christophe
> Strobbe
> Sent: March-22-10 6:31 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF will be legally accessible with the new 508
>
>
> At 05:37 20/03/2010, John Foliot wrote:
> >(...)
> >We know that there are legacy PDF's out there that will not be
> accessible,
> >and likely a few still being created today that are not as rich as
> >Acrobat/Live Design could produce. We can only blame that on history
> and
> >poor training though, right? Is this a problem with "PDF" or of poor
> >authoring practice and the early history of PDF? (...)
>
> There is still a lot of work to be done to improve authoring
> practices. I am involved in several projects funded by the European
> Commission that had to rework deliverables because the PDF files were
> not accessible or not tagged. I had to teach people how to use
> Heading styles in MS Word and how to generate tagged PDF from
> OpenOffice.org - even more than a year after the start of these
> projects. These projects, as all the work I do, focus on
> accessibility for people with disabilities. There is a cruel irony in
> this.
>
> Lesson learnt: provide tutorials about accessibile authoring
> practices at the start of such projects.
>
>
> >Interesting note about cheap alternatives that generate pseudo-PDFs
> that
> >lack access features. Are you aware of any examples that I could see?
> It
> >would be interesting to see what if anything they do produce - perhaps
> we
> >should go after those software companies instead - I wonder aloud if
> ISO
> >could modify the once proprietary but now open PDF standard to place a
> >stronger insistence on accessibility to be called "PDF" (worth asking,
> >no?). If bad software tools (versus a file format) is the culprit, we
> >should point that out with proof, and attack the real problem. Most
> large
> >organizations that I know of, the majority will not buy faulty tools if
> >they can avoid it, so the market place can be our friend if we are
> smart
> >about it.
>
> John, are you looking for overviews like the following?
> * JISC TechDIS: "Coparison of Free PDF Software" (no date)
> <http://www.techdis.ac.uk/index.php?p=3_20_2_2>;
> * "Accessibility testing 14 PDF creation tools" (12 September 2009):
>
> <http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2009/pdf_conversion_tools.html
> >.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe Strobbe
>
>
>
> --
> Christophe Strobbe
> K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
> Research Group on Document Architectures
> Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
> B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
> BELGIUM
> tel: +32 16 32 85 51
> http://www.docarch.be/
> ---
> "Better products and services through end-user empowerment"
> http://www.usem-net.eu/
> ---
> Please don't invite me to LinkedIn, Facebook, Quechup or other
> "social networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but
> I haven't.
>
>

From: Mills, Teresa
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 2:36PM
Subject: Re: WebAIM-Forum Digest, Vol 60, Issue 28
← Previous message | No next message

In my opinion the Flash earthquake quiz located at http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf6/earthquake.html is not fully accessible. I am using the Section 508 standards as my basis for this conclusion.

Problems:

1. The control panel is not keyboard accessible. In this feature one can find their score, number of questions remaining, and change the background colors. If you are unable to use a mouse, you cannot get to this information. In addition, you would totally miss this using a screen reader and not even know that there was a control panel.

2. There is a number of unlabeled graphics, including the button to continue on the first screen. This problem occurs throughout the Flash. If you change your settings in the configuration manager in JAWS to "All Graphics" you will hear a number of "unlabeled graphics."

Below is some information from the Inspect32 tool:

How found: Focus [o:0xFFFFFFFC,c:0x0]
hwnd=0x000207F8 32bit class="MacromediaFlashPlayerActiveX" style=0x56000000 ex=0x0
Info: IAcc = 0x001AE580 VarChild:[VT_I4=0x0]
Interfaces: IEnumVARIANT IOleWindow
Impl: Remote native IAccessible
Annotation ID: [not supported]

Name: none [mnfd]
Value: none [mnfd]
Role: client
State: focused,focusable
Location: {l:178, t:288, w:651, h:401}
Description: none [mnfd]
Kbshortcut: none [mnfd]
DefAction: none [mnfd]
Parent: none [screen]
Help: none [mnfd]
Help Topic: none [mnfd]
ChildCount: 10
Window: 0x000207F8 class="MacromediaFlashPlayerActiveX" style=0x56000000 ex=0x0
Children: none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
"During and after a quake" : text : read only
"The ground is shaking beneath you. It's an earthquake, and what you do in the next few seconds and minutes could be the difference between life and death or serious injury. Answer these 10 questions to test your knowledge of what to do when an earthquake strikes. Click the button to continue:" : text : read only
none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
none [mnfd] : push button : focusable
none [mnfd] : graphic : normal
"© 2004 Belo Interactive. Design by Sal Topete" : text : read only
Selection: none [mnfd]
Ancestors: [ No Parent ]

3. So this quiz needs some work to be considered accessible. However, if you can find the continue button on the first screen, I would say a person using a screen reader would be able to take the quiz, but not get the score from the control panel.

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