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Thread: WebTV CSS support list
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Holly Marie
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2002 10:48AM
Subject: WebTV CSS support list
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Since WebTV does not support @import, it could be safe to say that using
@import for real browsers(excludes NNold too) would be good then using a
scaled down one for webTV might work.
Though I do not like advocating separate browser sheets unless a user
selects a change, this might be an option for those of you that need to
code pages for MSN webTV.
Support is really iffy, and this comes from MS, webTV, which may have
somehow taken over the web tv market?
seems WebTV does not support, a few key things...
font: style is Not supported
Font-family: only 2 supported = * Only sans serif and monospace are
supported. (So do not use Serif fonts on WebTV pages.)
it does not support the basic style "color: "
border-style = Only the solid attribute is supported.
Background is not supported,
Background-color is supported but only applies to the background behind
any text, does not fill the box or division.
and there are many other quirky things it uses as CSS.
URL: http://developer.msntv.com/develop/elements.asp
maybe there could be a cute little tv icon with alt text in a corner,...
if you are viewing this page on webTV click here?
holly
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From: Philip Pawley
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2002 2:24PM
Subject: Re: WebTV CSS support list
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On my site, I use:
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="style.css" type="text/css" title="alexanderworks" />
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="n4free.css" type="text/css" media="screen,print" title="alexanderworks" />
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="webtv.css" type="text/css" media="tv" title="alexanderworks" />
[Initial dots added just in case the html is a problem].
(I'm not sure whether the title attribute serves any purpose. It was recommended to me for some reason I can't remember).
The first linked style sheet contains css for all browsers.
The second contains the css that would mess up in Netscape 4. (N4 only reads style sheets with if the value of the media attribute is "screen" or - I believe - "all").
The third style sheet is only read by WebTV.
For N4, I have a JavaScript file that writes a <style type="text/css">..</style section into the html if the browser sniff code finds "netscape 4".
At 11/03/02 11:48 -0600, you wrote:
>Since WebTV does not support @import, it could be safe to say that using
>@import for real browsers(excludes NNold too) would be good then using a
>scaled down one for webTV might work.
WebTV does support @import, albeit rather iffily. Using the JavaScript technique I use for N4 is also iffy in WebTV, but the <link .. media="tv" .. /> is, as far as I am aware, totally reliable. The drawback is that Internet Explorer and Opera both download the file, even though they do nothing with it?!
>Though I do not like advocating separate browser sheets unless a user
>selects a change, this might be an option for those of you that need to
>code pages for MSN webTV.
>
>Support is really iffy, and this comes from MS, webTV, which may have
>somehow taken over the web tv market?
They're really clever folk over at Microsoft, don't you know.
All the best,
BTW thanks for the spur to switch to xhtml *strict*, Holly. I'm having a go and it seems to be working ok so far. Just one table with either 2 or 3 columns depending on the width of the browser window. The WebTV and N4 style sheets will use fixed fonts as the user can change sizes even so. Ems for all other browsers.
--
Philip Pawley
Liverpool, UK
http://www.alexanderworks.org/
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From: Leo Smith
Date: Thu, Mar 14 2002 8:41AM
Subject: CSS linking
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Philip,
Your technique of throwing off NS4 in your second stylesheet
linking method:
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="n4free.css" type="text/css"
media="screen,print" title="alexanderworks" />
..is an interesting one that I have not seen before. Ordinarily I would
use the @import method for that.
My question is, if you go on to define a sheet purely for printing,
would some browsers get confused with two print media sheets.
So:
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="style.css" type="text/css"
title="alexanderworks" /> <!--DEFAULT SHEET-->
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="n4free.css"
type="text/css" media="screen,print" title="alexanderworks" /> <!--
NON-NS4 SHEET-->
<.link rel="StyleSheet" href="print.css"
type="text/css" media="print" title="alexanderworks" /> <!--PRINT
ONLY SHEET-->
Following the rules of the cascade, the print media only sheet is
specified last, and should therefore overide the previous print and
screen media sheet, and therefore there should be no confusion
about which styles the browser should actually use for printing.
However, I am wondering if this is the case, or whether using that
nifty NON-NS4 technique (media="screen, print") as well as a print
media only sheet would work well together.
Leo.
On 11 Mar 2002, at 21:24, Philip Pawley wrote:
> On my site, I use:
>
> <.link rel="StyleSheet" href="style.css" type="text/css"
> title="alexanderworks" /> <.link rel="StyleSheet" href="n4free.css"
> type="text/css" media="screen,print" title="alexanderworks" /> <.link
> rel="StyleSheet" href="webtv.css" type="text/css" media="tv"
> title="alexanderworks" /> [Initial dots added just in case the html is
> a problem].
>
> (I'm not sure whether the title attribute serves any purpose. It was
> recommended to me for some reason I can't remember).
>
> The first linked style sheet contains css for all browsers.
>
> The second contains the css that would mess up in Netscape 4. (N4 only
> reads style sheets with if the value of the media attribute is
> "screen" or - I believe - "all").
>
> The third style sheet is only read by WebTV.
>
> For N4, I have a JavaScript file that writes a <style
> type="text/css">..</style section into the html if the browser sniff
> code finds "netscape 4".
>
> At 11/03/02 11:48 -0600, you wrote:
> >Since WebTV does not support @import, it could be safe to say that
> >using @import for real browsers(excludes NNold too) would be good
> >then using a scaled down one for webTV might work.
>
> WebTV does support @import, albeit rather iffily. Using the JavaScript
> technique I use for N4 is also iffy in WebTV, but the <link ..
> media="tv" .. /> is, as far as I am aware, totally reliable. The
> drawback is that Internet Explorer and Opera both download the file,
> even though they do nothing with it?!
>
> >Though I do not like advocating separate browser sheets unless a user
> >selects a change, this might be an option for those of you that need
> >to code pages for MSN webTV.
> >
> >Support is really iffy, and this comes from MS, webTV, which may have
> >somehow taken over the web tv market?
>
> They're really clever folk over at Microsoft, don't you know.
>
> All the best,
>
> BTW thanks for the spur to switch to xhtml *strict*, Holly. I'm having
> a go and it seems to be working ok so far. Just one table with either
> 2 or 3 columns depending on the width of the browser window. The WebTV
> and N4 style sheets will use fixed fonts as the user can change sizes
> even so. Ems for all other browsers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Philip Pawley
> Liverpool, UK
> http://www.alexanderworks.org/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
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From: Philip Pawley
Date: Thu, Mar 14 2002 2:47PM
Subject: Re: CSS linking
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Leo,
>However, I am wondering if this is the case, or whether using that
>nifty NON-NS4 technique (media="screen, print") as well as a print
>media only sheet would work well together.
1. I think the extra print media sheet should work well with my proposed arrangement. I can't see why it shouldn't.
2. I prefer to put my print rules at the end of my non-NS4 sheet like so:-
@media print { body { background:white; } }
I don't know whether the linked style sheet for printing only might create problems for somebody trying to print the page while off-line. Would all browsers call for the sheet when the page was requested, or would some wait until the user tried to print it? I don't know.
3. You could always use a different media definition. .. media="screen,projection" .. for instance.
-----------------------------------------------------
I would like to share a few other smaller tips. *Please* let me know if you know of any problems with these in other platforms than windows.
1. Internet Explorer does not yet use this type of selector, so this rule would only be applied in Opera 4+ and Netscape 6:
div[width="whatever"].someclass { width:30px; }
2. IE4 thinks it understands
div[width].someclass { width:30px; } and will apply it as though it were this rule:
div.someclass { width:30px; }
So, if you use an attribute that is *not* specified in the tag in question, *only IE4* will apply the rule.
3. IE4 and IE5 do not apply case sensitivity to classes and id's. So, if you have a tag <.div class="someclass"> , this rule:
div.someClass { width:30px; } will be applied to that tag by IE4 and IE5 but, of course, not by IE6, NS6, Opera or WebTV.
[Note. Dot added to tag to avoid confusing the email program]
Please share any other such tips you may know of. (I would particularly like to know of any way of applying a rule *only* in IE6).
All the best,
--
Philip Pawley
Liverpool, UK
http://www.alexanderworks.org/
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From: Leo Smith
Date: Fri, Mar 15 2002 2:38PM
Subject: Re: CSS linking
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I had not considered an offline user's browser and printing - if the
print sheet had not already been downloaded, then the print styles
would either not be applied, or the browser might try to re-connect.
As for @media print - unfortunately, not supported by IE4/PC or
IE5/MAC, although those users tend to be in a minority. I have
stuck to the <link> method for delivering my print sheet as it
remains the most widely supported method at present.
A *really* good site for reference on support (across browsers and
platforms) for media specific sheets (screen, projection, aural,
braille, print, etc) and the different methods of applying them is:
http://www.codestyle.org/css/media/
Leo.
On 14 Mar 2002, at 21:47, Philip Pawley wrote:
> 2. I prefer to put my print rules at the end of my non-NS4 sheet like
> so:- @media print { body { background:white; } } I don't know whether
> the linked style sheet for printing only might create problems for
> somebody trying to print the page while off-line. Would all browsers
> call for the sheet when the page was requested, or would some wait
> until the user tried to print it? I don't know.
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
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