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Thread: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Michael.Moore@dars.state.tx.us
Date: Fri, Aug 27 2010 12:42PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
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"Would our screen reader experts please explain how screen readers convey the column and row header information (when in Table mode)."
This is how it works with JAWS for Windows (JFW).
Read across a row. Cntrl+Alt+Left or Right Arrow Key. JAWS announces column headers when they change.
Read down a column Cntrl+Alt+Up or Down Arrow. JAWS announces row headers as they change.
Read row and column headers for a given cell Cntrl+Alt+Numpad 5.
Other table commands like read a whole column windowsKey+period or a whole row windowsKey+comma will only read the contents of the cells but not any headings other than the one located in the first cell of the row or column being read.
Mike Moore
From: Langum, Michael J
Date: Fri, Aug 27 2010 12:45PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
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Mike,
How does JFW work on complex tables that use id and headers? Does it voice ALL the associated cells in the headers list? Or just the ones that have changed relative to the previously visited cell?
-- Mike
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Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 2:40 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
"Would our screen reader experts please explain how screen readers convey the column and row header information (when in Table mode)."
This is how it works with JAWS for Windows (JFW).
Read across a row. Cntrl+Alt+Left or Right Arrow Key. JAWS announces column headers when they change.
Read down a column Cntrl+Alt+Up or Down Arrow. JAWS announces row headers as they change.
Read row and column headers for a given cell Cntrl+Alt+Numpad 5.
Other table commands like read a whole column windowsKey+period or a whole row windowsKey+comma will only read the contents of the cells but not any headings other than the one located in the first cell of the row or column being read.
Mike Moore
From: Michael.Moore@dars.state.tx.us
Date: Fri, Aug 27 2010 1:39PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
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It continues to work the same way. It will announce all of the headers if you hit cntrl+alt+numPad 5 but just what changes when you are moving across a row or down a column. For a long time this was the only way to reliably mark up complex tables, support for colspan and rowspan seems to be improving.
Mike Moore
(512) 424-4159
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Langum, Michael J
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:45 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
Mike,
How does JFW work on complex tables that use id and headers? Does it voice ALL the associated cells in the headers list? Or just the ones that have changed relative to the previously visited cell?
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 2:40 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
"Would our screen reader experts please explain how screen readers convey the column and row header information (when in Table mode)."
This is how it works with JAWS for Windows (JFW).
Read across a row. Cntrl+Alt+Left or Right Arrow Key. JAWS announces column headers when they change.
Read down a column Cntrl+Alt+Up or Down Arrow. JAWS announces row headers as they change.
Read row and column headers for a given cell Cntrl+Alt+Numpad 5.
Other table commands like read a whole column windowsKey+period or a whole row windowsKey+comma will only read the contents of the cells but not any headings other than the one located in the first cell of the row or column being read.
Mike Moore
From: Langum, Michael J
Date: Fri, Aug 27 2010 1:45PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
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Thanks for the details.
Can you elaborate on "support for colspan and rowspan seems to be improving?" Aside from JAWS, do other screen readers offer support? With JAWS, do some versions support this, and others not?
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:37 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
It continues to work the same way. It will announce all of the headers if you hit cntrl+alt+numPad 5 but just what changes when you are moving across a row or down a column. For a long time this was the only way to reliably mark up complex tables, support for colspan and rowspan seems to be improving.
Mike Moore
(512) 424-4159
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Langum, Michael J
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:45 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
Mike,
How does JFW work on complex tables that use id and headers? Does it voice ALL the associated cells in the headers list? Or just the ones that have changed relative to the previously visited cell?
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 2:40 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader voicing of tables
"Would our screen reader experts please explain how screen readers convey the column and row header information (when in Table mode)."
This is how it works with JAWS for Windows (JFW).
Read across a row. Cntrl+Alt+Left or Right Arrow Key. JAWS announces column headers when they change.
Read down a column Cntrl+Alt+Up or Down Arrow. JAWS announces row headers as they change.
Read row and column headers for a given cell Cntrl+Alt+Numpad 5.
Other table commands like read a whole column windowsKey+period or a whole row windowsKey+comma will only read the contents of the cells but not any headings other than the one located in the first cell of the row or column being read.
Mike Moore
From: Terrill Bennett
Date: Mon, Aug 30 2010 12:33PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader voicing of tables
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I've quickly thrown together examples of tables using scope or id
attributes, and recorded both JAWS and NVDA so you can listen. I used
voice rates that most people can probably understand clearly.
Here are direct links to each article so you don't have to go through
the menus:
Table using SCOPE attributes (NVDA using the Crystal voice from NaturalSoft):
http://bennett1.org/j15/accessibility/at-testing/tst-sr/tables-screen-readers/169-scope-equals
Table using ID attribute (NVDA using the default eSpeak voice):
http://bennett1.org/j15/accessibility/at-testing/tst-sr/tables-screen-readers/171-tables-using-id-attribute
Using JAWS and NVDA give you examples of the range of behavior you
find in screen readers with tables.
Again, I put the entire menu structure and articles together in a bit
of a hurry, so the whole package needs a good rub out, waxing and
polishing - but the recordings and actual articles are acceptable.
The article contains recordings in an unaccessible Flash player (I
didn't write it, and I don't program Flash, sorry!), DIRECT LINKS to
the MP3's for those who can't access the player (feel free to
right-click and steal), along with a text narrative complete with
table-related JAWS commands used to navigate the tables.
Hope this helps.
PS: two examples of what might possibly be contained in a future project?
-- terrill --