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Thread: Government site accessibility law
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Ro
Date: Tue, Sep 21 2010 5:54PM
Subject: Government site accessibility law
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Hi accessibility experts,
I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
your help.
All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to use
that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because it
totally locked me out of my own business.
Thanks in advance,
Randi
http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
From: Karl Groves
Date: Tue, Sep 21 2010 6:18PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
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Randi -
As point of clarification: all US Government agencies within the Executive
Branch are required to comply with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act.
There are several exemptions to Section 508, none of which are likely to be
applicable to a public facing website. In short, yes, government websites
are supposed to be accessible.
The technical and functional provisions of Section 508 (those found under
Subpart B and Subpart C) are - purposely - agnostic when it comes to things
like user agents and assistive technologies. In fact, if you read through
the Functional Performance Criteria (1194.31) you see non-specific
references to assistive technologies. For example, 1194.31(a) says "At least
one mode of operation and information retrieval that does not require user
vision shall be provided, or support for assistive technology used by people
who are blind or visually impaired shall be provided." This provision
doesn't discuss screen readers, Braille output, or screen magnification,
much less a brand. It simply says "assistive technology used by people who
are blind or visually impaired".
The words "browser" or "user-agent" do not appear at all in the standards.
So, to make a long story short, there's nothing in Section 508 mandating
cross-browser compatibility.
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ro
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Government site accessibility law
Hi accessibility experts,
I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
your help.
All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to use
that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because it
totally locked me out of my own business.
Thanks in advance,
Randi
http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
From: Nancy Johnson
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 5:24AM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
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If its a US Government site, I might suggest letting them know that
you could not access the site with some details as to what you were
trying to do.
Nancy
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Karl Groves
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Randi -
>
> As point of clarification: all US Government agencies within the Executive
> Branch are required to comply with Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act.
> There are several exemptions to Section 508, none of which are likely to be
> applicable to a public facing website. In short, yes, government websites
> are supposed to be accessible.
>
> The technical and functional provisions of Section 508 (those found under
> Subpart B and Subpart C) are - purposely - agnostic when it comes to things
> like user agents and assistive technologies. In fact, if you read through
> the Functional Performance Criteria (1194.31) you see non-specific
> references to assistive technologies. For example, 1194.31(a) says "At least
> one mode of operation and information retrieval that does not require user
> vision shall be provided, or support for assistive technology used by people
> who are blind or visually impaired shall be provided." This provision
> doesn't discuss screen readers, Braille output, or screen magnification,
> much less a brand. It simply says "assistive technology used by people who
> are blind or visually impaired".
>
> The words "browser" or "user-agent" do not appear at all in the standards.
> So, to make a long story short, there's nothing in Section 508 mandating
> cross-browser compatibility.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ro
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Government site accessibility law
>
> Hi accessibility experts,
>
> I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
> your help.
>
> All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
> that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to use
> that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
> Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
>
> Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
> have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
> open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
>
> If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because it
> totally locked me out of my own business.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Randi
>
> http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
>
>
From: Hoffman, Allen
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 12:21PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
← Previous message | Next message →
Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 does not require all
OS/browsers are able to access a website effectively, however, the
standards set forth in 36 CFR 1194.21 and 36 CFR 1194.22 if followed
will result, generally, in most modern browser and OS pairs working
well. Simply put, no low requires all OS/browser combinations are
interoperable with all government websites--and in my view that would be
silly. If you try you can always one that won't work, and it isn't the
website fault.
Should Lynx work on every site--maybe it should but it doesn't due to
inherent limitations it has.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ro [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Government site accessibility law
Hi accessibility experts,
I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
your help.
All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to use
that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because it
totally locked me out of my own business.
Thanks in advance,
Randi
http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
From: Margit Link-Rodrigue
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 1:00PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
← Previous message | Next message →
Randi,
It sounds to me that by applying for benefits, you had to access a web
application rather than a website, the difference being that you needed to
go through a data entry workflow.
Working on web applications myself, I know that often (even on federally
funded projects) the accessibility testing is very basic. These applications
are often programmed by subcontractors which are rarely held accountable
when it comes to accessibility. I know this is unacceptable, but
unfortunately a reality.
I am curious why you needed sighted assistance to get through the process.
Was it impossible for you to submit your application (maybe because it
required access to a lot of paperwork)? Or is it just easier and faster for
you to submit your application with the help of a sighted person? If the
latter is the case, then I don't think it's a big deal for the sighted user
to switch to Internet Explorer in order to assist you.
If you needed help because you found the application process inaccessible,
you should definitely report this to the agency you were dealing with. It
would not be acceptable if the application didn't meet the technical
requirements of your assistive technologies.
-Margit
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi accessibility experts,
>
> I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
> your help.
>
> All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
> that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to use
> that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
> Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
>
> Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
> have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
> open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
>
> If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because it
> totally locked me out of my own business.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Randi
>
> http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
>
>
From: Ro
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 1:12PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
← Previous message | Next message →
Yes, I needed sighted assistence because my Apple computer could not
access the application. Turns out, the whole website is completely
useless anyway. I won't go into details, but even my sighted friend,
using their required Internet Explorer, cannot get the application to
do what I need it to do, and what I've been told to do countless
times. So my sighted friend had to call because I wasn't even really
given the time of day since I couldn't see the screen we were having
problems with. She was given a work around and we are trying that now.
Wow. :)
~Randi and Guide Dog Jayden
For me, acceptance was the first step towards recovery.
On Sep 22, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Margit Link-Rodrigue wrote:
> Randi,
> It sounds to me that by applying for benefits, you had to access a web
> application rather than a website, the difference being that you
> needed to
> go through a data entry workflow.
>
> Working on web applications myself, I know that often (even on
> federally
> funded projects) the accessibility testing is very basic. These
> applications
> are often programmed by subcontractors which are rarely held
> accountable
> when it comes to accessibility. I know this is unacceptable, but
> unfortunately a reality.
>
> I am curious why you needed sighted assistance to get through the
> process.
> Was it impossible for you to submit your application (maybe because it
> required access to a lot of paperwork)? Or is it just easier and
> faster for
> you to submit your application with the help of a sighted person? If
> the
> latter is the case, then I don't think it's a big deal for the
> sighted user
> to switch to Internet Explorer in order to assist you.
>
> If you needed help because you found the application process
> inaccessible,
> you should definitely report this to the agency you were dealing
> with. It
> would not be acceptable if the application didn't meet the technical
> requirements of your assistive technologies.
>
> -Margit
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi accessibility experts,
>>
>> I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
>> your help.
>>
>> All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
>> that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to
>> use
>> that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
>> Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
>> have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
>> open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
>>
>> If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because
>> it
>> totally locked me out of my own business.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Randi
>>
>> http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
From: Margit Link-Rodrigue
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 1:27PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
← Previous message | Next message →
Oh, that sounds frustrating. I have been trying for weeks to understand how
to calculate online sales taxes for all the parishes in Louisiana (each
parish has their own way of doing business), and no website or phone call to
state and local agencies has helped much. Each call produces a different
answer. Must be something about the way government works.
- Margit
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Yes, I needed sighted assistence because my Apple computer could not
> access the application. Turns out, the whole website is completely
> useless anyway. I won't go into details, but even my sighted friend,
> using their required Internet Explorer, cannot get the application to
> do what I need it to do, and what I've been told to do countless
> times. So my sighted friend had to call because I wasn't even really
> given the time of day since I couldn't see the screen we were having
> problems with. She was given a work around and we are trying that now.
> Wow. :)
>
> ~Randi and Guide Dog Jayden
>
> For me, acceptance was the first step towards recovery.
>
> On Sep 22, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Margit Link-Rodrigue wrote:
>
> > Randi,
> > It sounds to me that by applying for benefits, you had to access a web
> > application rather than a website, the difference being that you
> > needed to
> > go through a data entry workflow.
> >
> > Working on web applications myself, I know that often (even on
> > federally
> > funded projects) the accessibility testing is very basic. These
> > applications
> > are often programmed by subcontractors which are rarely held
> > accountable
> > when it comes to accessibility. I know this is unacceptable, but
> > unfortunately a reality.
> >
> > I am curious why you needed sighted assistance to get through the
> > process.
> > Was it impossible for you to submit your application (maybe because it
> > required access to a lot of paperwork)? Or is it just easier and
> > faster for
> > you to submit your application with the help of a sighted person? If
> > the
> > latter is the case, then I don't think it's a big deal for the
> > sighted user
> > to switch to Internet Explorer in order to assist you.
> >
> > If you needed help because you found the application process
> > inaccessible,
> > you should definitely report this to the agency you were dealing
> > with. It
> > would not be acceptable if the application didn't meet the technical
> > requirements of your assistive technologies.
> >
> > -Margit
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi accessibility experts,
> >>
> >> I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I need
> >> your help.
> >>
> >> All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now, under
> >> that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to
> >> use
> >> that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
> >> Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
> >>
> >> Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I have to
> >> have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
> >> open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
> >>
> >> If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because
> >> it
> >> totally locked me out of my own business.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> Randi
> >>
> >> http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
From: Ro
Date: Wed, Sep 22 2010 1:36PM
Subject: Re: Government site accessibility law
← Previous message | No next message
Yes, first it was the phone system spitting me back into the menu like
a vicious circle, then it was the website, which my friend and I have
spent hours on, spinning us in circles. It's unbelievable. We both
have our cognitive wits about us. I can't imagine someone else trying
to do this who has a cognitive disability.
The tech support guy can't figure out why the Medicare Part B program
isn't on the website, so he sent my friend a PDF of the paper
application they are sending me. Even that doesn't have a checkbox for
what I need to apply for.
This is an absolute nightmare, but I'm getting off the subject of web
accessibility now, so I won't bore you with details. :)
~Randi and Guide Dog Jayden
In the Center of the Roof
http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
On Sep 22, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Margit Link-Rodrigue wrote:
> Oh, that sounds frustrating. I have been trying for weeks to
> understand how
> to calculate online sales taxes for all the parishes in Louisiana
> (each
> parish has their own way of doing business), and no website or phone
> call to
> state and local agencies has helped much. Each call produces a
> different
> answer. Must be something about the way government works.
>
> - Margit
>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Yes, I needed sighted assistence because my Apple computer could not
>> access the application. Turns out, the whole website is completely
>> useless anyway. I won't go into details, but even my sighted friend,
>> using their required Internet Explorer, cannot get the application to
>> do what I need it to do, and what I've been told to do countless
>> times. So my sighted friend had to call because I wasn't even really
>> given the time of day since I couldn't see the screen we were having
>> problems with. She was given a work around and we are trying that
>> now.
>> Wow. :)
>>
>> ~Randi and Guide Dog Jayden
>>
>> For me, acceptance was the first step towards recovery.
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Margit Link-Rodrigue wrote:
>>
>>> Randi,
>>> It sounds to me that by applying for benefits, you had to access a
>>> web
>>> application rather than a website, the difference being that you
>>> needed to
>>> go through a data entry workflow.
>>>
>>> Working on web applications myself, I know that often (even on
>>> federally
>>> funded projects) the accessibility testing is very basic. These
>>> applications
>>> are often programmed by subcontractors which are rarely held
>>> accountable
>>> when it comes to accessibility. I know this is unacceptable, but
>>> unfortunately a reality.
>>>
>>> I am curious why you needed sighted assistance to get through the
>>> process.
>>> Was it impossible for you to submit your application (maybe
>>> because it
>>> required access to a lot of paperwork)? Or is it just easier and
>>> faster for
>>> you to submit your application with the help of a sighted person? If
>>> the
>>> latter is the case, then I don't think it's a big deal for the
>>> sighted user
>>> to switch to Internet Explorer in order to assist you.
>>>
>>> If you needed help because you found the application process
>>> inaccessible,
>>> you should definitely report this to the agency you were dealing
>>> with. It
>>> would not be acceptable if the application didn't meet the technical
>>> requirements of your assistive technologies.
>>>
>>> -Margit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Ro < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi accessibility experts,
>>>>
>>>> I am not versed in all the laws that govern the internet, and I
>>>> need
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> All government sites are supposed to be accessible, right? Now,
>>>> under
>>>> that, do all web browsers and operating systems have to be able to
>>>> use
>>>> that site? For example, can a government site only be used with
>>>> Internet Explorer, locking out users of Safari?
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be appreciated, as I encountered this today. I
>>>> have to
>>>> have sighted assistence to apply for benefits, and my friend had to
>>>> open Internet Explorer, when she uses Firefox primarily.
>>>>
>>>> If this is not following guidelines, I'd sure like to know, because
>>>> it
>>>> totally locked me out of my own business.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> Randi
>>>>
>>>> http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>