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Thread: JAWS Table behavior
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Langum, Michael J
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 9:45AM
Subject: JAWS Table behavior
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I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use "id" and "headers" attributes. The page is at http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two constructions.
When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it would voice the column or row head value that changed before it voiced the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles column and row heads?
Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the values of the column and row heads
-- Mike
From: James Nurthen
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 10:09AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
Mike,
In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is
case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers attribute
with initcap and some in all lower case.
Regards,
James
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data
> table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use "id"
> and "headers" attributes. The page is at
> http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare the
> way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two
> constructions.
>
> When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did not
> voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my understanding
> that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it would voice the
> column or row head value that changed before it voiced the value of data
> cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles column and row heads?
>
> Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the values
> of the column and row heads
>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: Langum, Michael J
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 10:15AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
James,
Thanks for the heads up on the case sensitivity issue. I have updated the file.
But I don't think that explains why JAWS is not voicing the column and row head information when it moves from cell to cell.
Do you have any insight on that?
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James Nurthen
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:05 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
Mike,
In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers attribute with initcap and some in all lower case.
Regards,
James
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data
> table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use "id"
> and "headers" attributes. The page is at
> http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare
> the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two
> constructions.
>
> When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did
> not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
> understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it
> would voice the column or row head value that changed before it voiced
> the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles column and row heads?
>
> Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the
> values of the column and row heads
>
>
> -- Mike
>
>
From: James Nurthen
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 10:27AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
I only use JAWS for testing purposes - so do not feel I am really qualified
to state definitively that it is ok - but everything seems to work correctly
for me. Any changes in header are read when moving from cell to cell.
Regards,
James
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 09:11, Langum, Michael J < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> James,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the case sensitivity issue. I have updated the
> file.
>
> But I don't think that explains why JAWS is not voicing the column and row
> head information when it moves from cell to cell.
>
> Do you have any insight on that?
> -- Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James Nurthen
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
>
> Mike,
> In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is
> case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers attribute
> with initcap and some in all lower case.
> Regards,
> James
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >wrote:
>
> > I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data
> > table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use
> "id"
> > and "headers" attributes. The page is at
> > http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare
> > the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two
> > constructions.
> >
> > When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did
> > not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
> > understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it
> > would voice the column or row head value that changed before it voiced
> > the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles column
> and row heads?
> >
> > Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the
> > values of the column and row heads
> >
> >
> > -- Mike
> >
> >
From: Mary Stores
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 10:42AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello,
I'm fairly new to list.
I'm using JAWS 11, IE 8, and Windows XP. When I used the table reading
keystrokes (ctrl+Alt+ Left, Right, Up, or Down arrow), JAWS did
announce when you move to a new column or when you were at the end of
a row for both tables. In the first table, for example: JAWS reads the
following in the 2nd row:
Categories. Major Column 1
Categories. Minor. Column 2
Past. FY 01. Column 3
Past. FY 02. Column 4
Future. FY 03. Column 5
Future. FY04 Column 6
If I read the second row in the second table, JAWS reads the same
imformation as above in the very same way.
Mary
Quoting "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> James,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the case sensitivity issue. I have updated
> the file.
>
> But I don't think that explains why JAWS is not voicing the column
> and row head information when it moves from cell to cell.
>
> Do you have any insight on that?
> -- Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James
> Nurthen
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
>
> Mike,
> In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is
> case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers
> attribute with initcap and some in all lower case.
> Regards,
> James
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data
>> table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use "id"
>> and "headers" attributes. The page is at
>> http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare
>> the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two
>> constructions.
>>
>> When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did
>> not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
>> understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it
>> would voice the column or row head value that changed before it voiced
>> the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles
>> column and row heads?
>>
>> Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the
>> values of the column and row heads
>>
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
From: David Farough
Date: Thu, Sep 23 2010 11:30AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
I tried your tables using versions 9 10 and 11 of Jaws.
Both tables were read properly in all versions of jaws when using the
proper table navigation keys. (control + alt and left, right, up and
down arrow keys)
is it possible that the user was just arrowing through the text without
using the control + alt arrow keystrokes?
Jaws should be set to announce tables using both row and column or
marked headers. the other settings include announcing table rows or
announce table titles off.
.
David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779
>>> Mary Stores < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 12:38 PM Thursday, September 23,
2010 >>>
Hello,
I'm fairly new to list.
I'm using JAWS 11, IE 8, and Windows XP. When I used the table reading
keystrokes (ctrl+Alt+ Left, Right, Up, or Down arrow), JAWS did
announce when you move to a new column or when you were at the end of
a row for both tables. In the first table, for example: JAWS reads the
following in the 2nd row:
Categories. Major Column 1
Categories. Minor. Column 2
Past. FY 01. Column 3
Past. FY 02. Column 4
Future. FY 03. Column 5
Future. FY04 Column 6
If I read the second row in the second table, JAWS reads the same
imformation as above in the very same way.
Mary
Quoting "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> James,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the case sensitivity issue. I have
updated
> the file.
>
> But I don't think that explains why JAWS is not voicing the column
> and row head information when it moves from cell to cell.
>
> Do you have any insight on that?
> -- Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James
> Nurthen
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
>
> Mike,
> In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is
> case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers
> attribute with initcap and some in all lower case.
> Regards,
> James
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex
data
>> table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I
use "id"
>> and "headers" attributes. The page is at
>> http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to
compare
>> the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these
two
>> constructions.
>>
>> When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did
>> not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
>> understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell,
it
>> would voice the column or row head value that changed before it
voiced
>> the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles
>> column and row heads?
>>
>> Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice
the
>> values of the column and row heads
>>
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
From: Ted
Date: Fri, Sep 24 2010 2:57AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | Next message →
Please be aware that there was a bug in the first version of JAWS 11 with
respect to reading table headers properly.
There was an update in April which fixed the problem.
For more details please see
http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2010/jaws_update.html
Ted Page
Director, PWS Ltd
Registered in England no. 06508410.
Registered office: 4 Riverview, Walnut Tree Close, Guildford, Surrey GU1 4UX
-----Original Message-----
From: David Farough [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 23 September 2010 18:28
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
I tried your tables using versions 9 10 and 11 of Jaws.
Both tables were read properly in all versions of jaws when using the proper
table navigation keys. (control + alt and left, right, up and down arrow
keys) is it possible that the user was just arrowing through the text
without using the control + alt arrow keystrokes? Jaws should be set to
announce tables using both row and column or marked headers. the other
settings include announcing table rows or announce table titles off. .
David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique Email /
Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779
>>> Mary Stores < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 12:38 PM Thursday, September 23,
2010 >>>
Hello,
I'm fairly new to list.
I'm using JAWS 11, IE 8, and Windows XP. When I used the table reading
keystrokes (ctrl+Alt+ Left, Right, Up, or Down arrow), JAWS did
announce when you move to a new column or when you were at the end of
a row for both tables. In the first table, for example: JAWS reads the
following in the 2nd row:
Categories. Major Column 1
Categories. Minor. Column 2
Past. FY 01. Column 3
Past. FY 02. Column 4
Future. FY 03. Column 5
Future. FY04 Column 6
If I read the second row in the second table, JAWS reads the same
imformation as above in the very same way.
Mary
Quoting "Langum, Michael J" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> James,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the case sensitivity issue. I have
updated
> the file.
>
> But I don't think that explains why JAWS is not voicing the column and
> row head information when it moves from cell to cell.
>
> Do you have any insight on that?
> -- Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James
> Nurthen
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:05 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
>
> Mike,
> In the second table your ids are not of consistent case. id is
> case-sensitive yet you have some references to them in the headers
> attribute with initcap and some in all lower case. Regards,
> James
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 08:44, Langum, Michael J
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
>> I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex
data
>> table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I
use "id"
>> and "headers" attributes. The page is at
>> http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to
compare
>> the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these
two
>> constructions.
>>
>> When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did
>> not voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
>> understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell,
it
>> would voice the column or row head value that changed before it
voiced
>> the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles
>> column and row heads?
>>
>> Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice
the
>> values of the column and row heads
>>
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
From: Kinnunen,Daniel (DFPS)
Date: Fri, Sep 24 2010 9:45AM
Subject: Re: JAWS Table behavior
← Previous message | No next message
FYI, JAWS seems to work okay with complex column headers (where a header
spans multiple columns), but still does not read complex row headers
properly (where a header cell spans multiple rows).
When moving left and right within a single row, JAWS will announce all
column headers associated with each data cell, even if the header spans
multiple columns. However, if a row header spans multiple rows, JAWS
announces all row headers only for the first row in the span when moving
up and down within a single column.
To illustrate, in your second example table that uses ID and HEADERS,
use Ctrl+Alt+Down Arrow and Ctrl+Alt+Up Arrow to move down the first
data column (PAST, FY 01).
Moving down the column, JAWS says this as you move to each cell:
Salaries, Bob, $35,000.
Sally, $35,000.
Facilities, Repairs, $3000.
Cleaning, $100.
Notice that the Major heading category (Salaries or Facilities) is
announced ONLY for the first row in that category. This is arguably
okay, since the user can assume the category is the same until a change
is announced.
Now move back UP the column using Ctrl+Alt+Up Arrow. JAWS says this:
Facilities, Repairs, $3000.
Sally, $35,000.
Salaries, Bob, $35,000.
Note that again, the major category is announced only for the first
(top) row in the category. So when I move from the first row of the
Facilities category to the last row of the Salaries category (Sally's
salary), JAWS does not announce the change in the row header. So as far
as the listener knows, Sally is one of the facilities costs, because
JAWS did not tell me I am now in the Salaries category.
As far as I can tell, this is common to JAWS 9, 10, and 11, and there is
no JAWS verbosity option that corrects this behavior.
In a perfect world, JAWS would handle column headers that span multiple
columns and row headers that span multiple rows in the same manner. I
would encourage you to go to the Freedom Scientific support site and
report this as a bug. Perhaps eventually it will get fixed.
Regards,
Dan Kinnunen
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Langum,
Michael J
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:44 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS Table behavior
I have created a page to test alternate ways of coding a complex data
table. In one case I use "scope" attributes. In the second case, I use
"id" and "headers" attributes. The page is at
http://www.opm.gov/_mike/jaws-test/tabledemo.asp. I wanted to compare
the way JAWS provides column and row header information in these two
constructions.
When I asked a friend who is a JAWS user to test the page, JAWS did not
voice any of the column and row heads. It has always been my
understanding that when JAWS navigates from data cell to data cell, it
would voice the column or row head value that changed before it voiced
the value of data cell. Am I misinformed about how JAWS handles column
and row heads?
Can someone look at the code, and tell me why JAWS did not voice the
values of the column and row heads
-- Mike