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Number of posts in this thread: 4 (In chronological order)

From: John E Brandt
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 3:09PM
Subject: was: Hidden Skip link have SEO impact? now: the value of skip links
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Julie and Susan bring up some good points.

Admittedly, I know less about screen magnification than about screen
readers. I have only the O/S built in screen magnification to test with (I
am aware that there are more robust third party screen mag applications).
When I use these magnifiers on the Mac OSX or Windows 7, the "skip
navigation" link did nothing to refocus the screen to where the content
begins (I am using www.webaim.org as the test bed here as it has the Skip
navigation link visible). So, I don't see how the "skip navigation" feature
helps screen magnification users. Can you tell us more Julie? Perhaps there
is a setting on the magnifier that does this?

Regarding folks who are "keyboard only" users, I guess I am more at a loss
as to how the "skip navigation" link helps them. Can you tell us more Julie?

Regarding Susan's comments, I guess if any document is not properly built
and tagged, whether that document be an HTML page, PDF or a MS-Word
document, the user with a disability is at a distinct disadvantage.

My position on the efficacy (and potential future) of the "skip navigation"
standard in Section 508, given the "advances" of current screen reader
technology and the apparent use rate of the "Skip navigation" links as
implied in the WebAIM screen reader survey data, assumes that the other
standards (Section 508 or WCAG) are being applied and used effectively. I
guess one could also assume that if a web designer was trying to meet the
Section 508 standards and knew enough to put a "Skip navigation" link on a
web page they would also have been doing things to meet the other standards
as well. That said, I certainly know of many situations where accessibility
standards were built into the design of a web page template or content
management system and their efforts were thwarted by the folks who added
content knowing nothing about accessibility and thus rendered the web page
inaccessible to people with disabilities. But this is a training issue, not
a design issue.

So with deference to the principles of good universal design, if there are
some reasons to keep the "Skip navigation" standard because it help others -
not just screen reader users - then I am interested in learning about them.

Thank you all for your comments here and on the blog.

~j


John E. Brandt
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
Augusta, Maine, USA


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Julie Romanowski
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:37 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden Skip link have SEO impact?

Skip links aren't just for screen reader users. Keyboard-only and screen
magnification users also benefit from skip links.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Susan Grossman
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:29 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Hidden Skip link have SEO impact?

I agree things are getting better and that properly coded pages play into
the newer features in screen readers and may not require skip links.

It does seem to me that your statement can only be truly valid if you assume
that everyone is coding their pages semantically using Headings, and Aria
correctly.

Seems to me to draw your conclusions the survey would've had to ask the
question: When you get to a site that has no skip links, uses no headings,
uses no aria, uses no labels and is full of images without alt tags, do you
continue on or do you leave.

I'm not saying your wrong that they are less important, I just feel you
don't have enough data for your conclusion, even with a "may" in there.

Please feel free to disagree and help me understand why my logic is
incorrect,

Susan

From: Julie Romanowski
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 3:48PM
Subject: Re: was: Hidden Skip link have SEO impact? now: the value of skip links
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I believe skip links can be omitted for simple web pages. The biggest benefit of skip links comes when accessing complex web pages with multiple focusable items. For example, if there are many focusable items, such as a large drop-down menu, located before a registration form, a keyboard users would have to tab multiple times to get to the form. Including a skip link on the page can help reduce the number of keystrokes, making navigation much easier.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of John E Brandt
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:09 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] was: Hidden Skip link have SEO impact? now: the value ofskip links

...

Regarding folks who are "keyboard only" users, I guess I am more at a loss as to how the "skip navigation" link helps them. Can you tell us more Julie?

...

From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 3:54PM
Subject: Re: was: Hidden Skip link have SEO impact? now: the value of skip links
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Julie Romanowski wrote:

> I believe skip links can be omitted for simple web pages. The biggest benefit of skip links comes when accessing complex web pages with multiple focusable items. For example, if there are many focusable items, such as a large drop-down menu, located before a registration form, a keyboard users would have to tab multiple times to get to the form. Including a skip link on the page can help reduce the number of keystrokes, making navigation much easier.

Although skip links are often hidden via CSS. As a keyboard user I know how to find them by turning off styles, but are there actually a large number of keyboard users who know how to find hidden skip links?

-Deborah

From: Al Sparber
Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 4:03PM
Subject: Re: was: Hidden Skip link have SEO impact? now: the value of skip links
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On 3/16/2011 5:50 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Julie Romanowski wrote:
>
>> I believe skip links can be omitted for simple web pages. The biggest benefit of skip links comes when accessing complex web pages with multiple focusable items. For example, if there are many focusable items, such as a large drop-down menu, located before a registration form, a keyboard users would have to tab multiple times to get to the form. Including a skip link on the page can help reduce the number of keystrokes, making navigation much easier.
>
> Although skip links are often hidden via CSS. As a keyboard user I know how to find them by turning off styles, but are there actually a large number of keyboard users who know how to find hidden skip links?

Probably not, but if they appear on focus, then keyboard users will see
them when they tab into them. So I guess hidden offscreen serves the
screen reader user, while making it visible on focus should serve the
keyboard user.

As it happens we are prototyping a new product and it might be helpful
in this discussion to view it.

http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/hps/mercury_01.htm

It's a tool for building a single-page site so it is very
special-purpose. But go ahead and check out the tabbing functionality
and let me know what you think.

It's an early prototype so feel free to be as candid as you please :-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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