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Thread: RE: label element
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Leo Smith
Date: Thu, Apr 04 2002 10:08AM
Subject: RE: label element
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Terence,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my postings with a very
detailed reply.
The periods before the elements' tags where so that they would not
be marked up by an email client...some others have been doing
this on the list for this reason - I should have stated that was the
reason in my posting.
As far as <label> being a child of the <form> element, Paul and
Jim have noted on the list that the specs say the <label> element
can exist outside of the form element.
The other info you provide helps to clear up in my mind the correct
coding sequences when it comes to <form>, <table>, <tr> and
<td>.
Thanks!
Leo.
On 3 Apr 2002, at 23:21, Terence de Giere wrote:
> Leo
>
> I did not quite understand your code sample for FORM elements because
> on the forum message there were periods before the element names
> within the start tags and end tags. Also there was a LABEL outside of
> the FORM, which is not allowed in HTML.
>
> The FORM element must encapsulate all other FORM child elements for
> that FORM. A FORM element cannot be placed inside another FORM
> element.
>
> A common error has to do with the use of tables. The TABLE element or
> several TABLE elements may be placed inside a FORM element. With the
> older HTML specifications, TABLE elements can be nested, with a new
> TABLE inside a cell of first TABLE. A FORM element and all its child
> elements may be placed in a single TABLE cell, either TH or TD, but
> the FORM element cannot be placed in any other place in a table, such
> as between rows or between cells etc., and although some browsers
> support this, this is not legal HTML, and will create problems for
> technology that does support official HTML specs.
>
> Also, except for the FORM element itself, a TABLE may not be placed
> inside any other FORM child element. No official HTML specification
> allows this. HTML 4.01 also requires that the LABEL element be a child
> of some other element directly in the FORM element, for example, a P
> element or a DIV element, or ideally the FIELDSET element, which
> allows grouping related controls. Also the FIELDSET element has a
> child element LEGEND, which can give an explanation for the group of
> controls in the FIELDSET, which is supported by some assitive
> technology. Placing the LABEL directly in the FORM element, that is,
> right after the FORM element violates the official HTML
> specifications. The legal elements that can be placed immediately
> after the FORM element are (in HTML 4.01) ADDRESS, BLOCKQUOTE, DEL,
> DIV, DL, FIELDSET, H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6, INS, NOSCRIPT, OL, P, PRE,
> SCRIPT, TABLE, and UL. One of these must be used as a container for
> first FORM control or controls and their LABELs. Remember that TABLE
> must also have a TR with a TH or TD child before using another FORM
> child element.
>
> Thus one could have a FORM, place a TABLE in the FORM, and place the
> child elements of the form inside TABLE cells. Avoid putting the LABEL
> element in a row above (before) the row that contains the form input
> or control it is associated with, since, unless the table has just one
> column, it becomes disassociated from the control as the screen reader
> or audio browser will continue to the end of that row before
> proceeding to the next row. So if tables are used, you can place the
> LABEL in the cell in the same table row immediately preceeding the
> cell that contains the control. You can also place the LABEL in the
> same cell as the control, preferably before the control. This is to
> maintain a read order that works if the technology does not support
> the explicit association using the "for" attribute.
>
> You may also place the form control inside the LABEL element with the
> LABEL text preferably before the control. This is an implicit
> association. When using an implicit association, you cannot use the
> LABEL in a separate TABLE cell because that would involve incorrectly
> nested elements. This implicit association also allows the possibility
> for visual CSS format to surround both the control and the LABEL text
> with some sort of format that visually will show that the LABEL text
> and the control "go together" for users with normal vision or visual
> impairment that may only require moderate magnification to see well.
>
> Also with regard to some less used special access technology, format
> TABLEs can be a usability barrier because some or all of the
> structures of the TABLE are are announced or read out to the user,
> interpolating a lot of useless information the user does not need to
> hear, or feel.
>
> Terence de Giere
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
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From: Mark Rew
Date: Thu, Apr 11 2002 7:38AM
Subject: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
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Hi group,
Does anyone know how I can use previously prepared text as part of my
captioning for the hearing impaired during a web cast?
Most of the talks for the presentations during an award ceremony are available
in word processing files. We want to make use of this material to generate
the text for our close captioning. Can anyone give me suggestions of software
and file formats that I should use? Please provide any advice and lessons
learn that you may have on doing this.
Thanks
Mark Rew
e-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
301-713-0262 x131
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From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Apr 11 2002 9:38AM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
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Mark,
MAGpie does import plain text into the captioning area of the application.
this is a feature in MAGpie 1.0 as well as in the upcoming 2.0.
The best way to import the text is to break it into caption-size chunks in
the text editor and then import it. I recommend that you determine the font
and size that you'll use in MAGpie, and match that in the text document (you
may need something better than notepad for this...like wordpad. After the
line breaks are in you can still save as text.
General suggestions before import:
1) double line break after sentence ending punctuation (double line break
creates a new caption when imported)
2) Modify the text so that a line break occurs before the line is long
enough to wrap when displayed in Real, QT, or SAMI. This will depend on the
font size and you may need to resize your text window to remind you of how
wide the caption area is.
3) After any line where you want a new caption (every two lines?) use a
double line break).
This modified file should import into MAGpie with much less pain and
suffering. Particularly with MAGpie 1.0, this is useful since the grid that
is used for captioning has problems with more than 4 lines of text in a
caption cell.
hope this helps,
AWK
On 4/11/02 10:31 AM, Mark Rew ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> Does anyone know how I can use previously prepared text as part of my
> captioning for the hearing impaired during a web cast?
>
> Most of the talks for the presentations during an award ceremony are available
> in word processing files. We want to make use of this material to generate
> the text for our close captioning. Can anyone give me suggestions of software
> and file formats that I should use? Please provide any advice and lessons
> learn that you may have on doing this.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Rew
> e-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 301-713-0262 x131
>
>
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
--
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)
WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.
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From: Rob Stevens
Date: Fri, Apr 12 2002 12:44AM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
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Hey Mark,
Mark,
Bunnyfoot are running a open forum on this topic entitled 'Driving
Empowerment and Internationalisation with Accessible Multimedia.'
30 May London W1
Full details and example multimedia file (BBC news article on the UK's first
internet car) with closed captions here:
www.bunnyfoot.com/forum
Windows and real player both produce good results. Quick Time is difficult
to work with and don't expect any support from Apple. But deaf and hard of
hearing people tend to prefer it. - Such is life!
Regards,
Rob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Rew" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "Terence de Giere"
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
> Hi group,
>
> Does anyone know how I can use previously prepared text as part of my
> captioning for the hearing impaired during a web cast?
>
> Most of the talks for the presentations during an award ceremony are
available
> in word processing files. We want to make use of this material to
generate
> the text for our close captioning. Can anyone give me suggestions of
software
> and file formats that I should use? Please provide any advice and lessons
> learn that you may have on doing this.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Rew
> e-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 301-713-0262 x131
>
>
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Heidi Ann Lefebure
Date: Mon, Apr 15 2002 2:52PM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello Mark!
Just thought I'd send my 2 cents to you on the topic. I'm not sure what Rob
meant about Quick Time being difficult to work with. I just finished up
captioning three digital videos in QuickTime using text files without any
problems (15 min, 22 min, 35 min).
I do like MAGpie & worked with the beta version of 2 some. It will be
tremendous when it's available.
Best wishes!
Heidi Lefebure
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Stevens" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 2:42 AM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
> Hey Mark,
>
> Mark,
>
> Bunnyfoot are running a open forum on this topic entitled 'Driving
> Empowerment and Internationalisation with Accessible Multimedia.'
>
> 30 May London W1
>
> Full details and example multimedia file (BBC news article on the UK's
first
> internet car) with closed captions here:
>
> www.bunnyfoot.com/forum
>
> Windows and real player both produce good results. Quick Time is difficult
> to work with and don't expect any support from Apple. But deaf and hard of
> hearing people tend to prefer it. - Such is life!
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Rob.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Rew" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "Terence de Giere"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:31 PM
> Subject: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
>
>
> > Hi group,
> >
> > Does anyone know how I can use previously prepared text as part of my
> > captioning for the hearing impaired during a web cast?
> >
> > Most of the talks for the presentations during an award ceremony are
> available
> > in word processing files. We want to make use of this material to
> generate
> > the text for our close captioning. Can anyone give me suggestions of
> software
> > and file formats that I should use? Please provide any advice and
lessons
> > learn that you may have on doing this.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mark Rew
> > e-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > 301-713-0262 x131
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
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From: Heidi Ann Lefebure
Date: Mon, Apr 15 2002 2:55PM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
← Previous message | No next message
Hello!
I just thought I'd offer my 2 cents. I'm not sure what Rob meant about
QuickTime being difficult to work with. I just finished up captioning three
videos (15 min, 22 min, and 25 min) in QuickTime from a text file with no
problems. I really liked it. However, if you are looking for something to
help with captioning, try MAGpie which is a freebie available from CPB/WGBH
National Center for Accessible Media (NCAM)
(http://ncam.wgbh.org/webaccess/magpie/). Version 1 is usable, but Version
2 hopefully will be out soon. I played with the beta version & it certainly
worked much better.
Best wishes!
Heidi Lefebure
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Stevens" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 2:42 AM
Subject: Re: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
> Hey Mark,
>
> Mark,
>
> Bunnyfoot are running a open forum on this topic entitled 'Driving
> Empowerment and Internationalisation with Accessible Multimedia.'
>
> 30 May London W1
>
> Full details and example multimedia file (BBC news article on the UK's
first
> internet car) with closed captions here:
>
> www.bunnyfoot.com/forum
>
> Windows and real player both produce good results. Quick Time is difficult
> to work with and don't expect any support from Apple. But deaf and hard of
> hearing people tend to prefer it. - Such is life!
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Rob.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Rew" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; "Terence de Giere"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:31 PM
> Subject: Providing captioning from a text file during a web cast?
>
>
> > Hi group,
> >
> > Does anyone know how I can use previously prepared text as part of my
> > captioning for the hearing impaired during a web cast?
> >
> > Most of the talks for the presentations during an award ceremony are
> available
> > in word processing files. We want to make use of this material to
> generate
> > the text for our close captioning. Can anyone give me suggestions of
> software
> > and file formats that I should use? Please provide any advice and
lessons
> > learn that you may have on doing this.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mark Rew
> > e-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > 301-713-0262 x131
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
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