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Thread: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS

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From: Cohen, Lisa A.
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 10:44AM
Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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Hello,
(Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec shows
an example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT tags. But this
does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5 do anything with
OPTGROUP).

Does anybody have info

From: Paul Bohman
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 11:06AM
Subject: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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The only technology that I'm aware of that supports optgroup is Netscape
6.x. I wish others did, but I don't think they do. Maybe the screen
reader Emacspeak for Unix/Linux does, but I'm not familiar enough with
it to know. Emacspeak has support for everything it seems, so I wouldn't
be surprised if it supports this feature.

Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu




-----Original Message-----
From: Cohen, Lisa A. [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:38 AM
To: WebAIM forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS



Hello,
(Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec
shows an example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT tags.
But this does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5 do anything
with OPTGROUP).

Does anybody have info about either getting JAWS to read t

From: Paul Bohman
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 11:14AM
Subject: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →

Oh, and as for alternative methods of encoding the information, the
options are relatively few and not ideal, but here's one idea:

Create imitation optgroups by putting two dashes, then a category
heading. Something like this:

--Cheeses--
swiss
american
bleu cheese
--Beverages--
grape juice
orange juice
milk

etc.

Screen readers will be able to read this, and, if users figure out the
dashes methodology, they will be able to use the dash key to navigate
between these sections, but it won't be immediately apparent what your
strategy is, so it isn't as good as the real optgroup tag would be.
Still, it's something.

The other option would be to break up the list into smaller lists.

You could make the dashed entries "unclickable", with no link
destination, or you could prepare a link destination for each of the
groups, which would then have the sub-groups available as links.

Actually, that's another option, perhaps. You could make bulleted lists
with headers. Depending on the setup that you have, this may work.

Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu




-----Original Message-----
From: Cohen, Lisa A. [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:38 AM
To: WebAIM forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS



Hello,
(Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec
shows an example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT tags.
But this does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5 do anything
with OPTGROUP).

Does anybody have info about either getting JAWS to read t

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, May 10 2002 2:41PM
Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →

Can you define =B3support=B2 in this case? Netscape 4.7, Opera 5, IE5.5 & 6,
and MacIE5& 5.1 (undoubtedly there are others, these are the ones I checked)
all support optgroup. I=B9ve attached a sample file. When viewing this
example in Ie, JAWS reads the options fine.

Mac IE does what I imagine people consider =B3supporting=B2 optgroup. When the
combo box is opened, four items appear, some with sub-menus. Very clean
visually. =20

Win IE makes the optgroup name bold and not selectable in its
implementation. A user with a screen reader will hear the optgroup name for
each sub-item, but the information is available. It would be great if
screen readers supported an auitory experience similar to the visual
experience in MacIE.

AWK

On 4/17/02 2:04 PM, Paul Bohman ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:

> The only technology that I'm aware of that supports optgroup is Netscape 6.x.
> I wish others did, but I don't think they do. Maybe the screen reader
> Emacspeak for Unix/Linux does, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know.
> Emacspeak has support for everything it seems, so I wouldn't be surprised if
> it supports this feature.
> =20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cohen, Lisa A. [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:38 AM
>> To: WebAIM forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
>> Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hello,=20
>> (Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
>> I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec shows an
>> example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT tags. But this
>> does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5 do anything with
>> OPTGROUP).
>>=20

--=20
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org

617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)

WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, May 10 2002 2:53PM
Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
← Previous message | No next message

On 4/17/02 3:29 PM, Cohen, Lisa A. ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:

> Andrew, I'm confused...
> Does JAWS say the group values (OPTGROUP) for you? Which keystrokes get him
> to move to (and say) another OPTGROUP?
> JAWS only says the group values if you include them as the content of the
> <option> tag. What I=B9ve always heard is that browsers that ignore optgroup
> will just read the <option> tag, so including the optgroup name redundantly is
> necessary. Browsers such as MacIE will use the label tag for the display and
> will not display the redundant information.
>=20
> IE6 is half and half. It displays the optgroup name, but it doesn=B9t use the
> label for the <option>, so the group name is in bold at before the first item
> in the optgroup, but then each option also includes the optgroup name that was
> included for backward compatibility. If you are using the keyboard to access
> the combo box, the optgroup names are skipped in IE6.
>=20
> Also, I am running IE 5.5 and it doesn't show the OPTGROUP at all... you see
> it in bold? Haven't tried 6.0 because most of my government users will not
> have it for a while.
>=20
> My IE5.5 is tied up, so I can=B9t verify this, but I=B9m sure you=B9re right.
>=20
> A correction to my last post =AD only Mac IE and IE6 are supporting optgroup as
> outlined above. The other browsers display adequate information if the
> optgroup name is used redundantly for backward compatibility.
>=20
> Andrew
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:45 PM
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>>=20
>> Can you define "support" in this case? Netscape 4.7, Opera 5, IE5.5 & 6, and
>> MacIE5& 5.1 (undoubtedly there are others, these are the ones I checked) all
>> support optgroup. I've attached a sample file. When viewing this example in
>> Ie, JAWS reads the options fine.
>>=20
>> Mac IE does what I imagine people consider "supporting" optgroup. When the
>> combo box is opened, four items appear, some with sub-menus. Very clean
>> visually. =20
>>=20
>> Win IE makes the optgroup name bold and not selectable in its implementation.
>> A user with a screen reader will hear the optgroup name for each sub-item,
>> but the information is available. It would be great if screen readers
>> supported an auitory experience similar to the visual experience in MacIE.
>>=20
>> AWK
>>=20
>> On 4/17/02 2:04 PM, Paul Bohman ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:
>>=20
>>> The only technology that I'm aware of that supports optgroup is Netscape
>>> 6.x. I wish others did, but I don't think they do. Maybe the screen reader
>>> Emacspeak for Unix/Linux does, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know.
>>> Emacspeak has support for everything it seems, so I wouldn't be surprised if
>>> it supports this feature.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Cohen, Lisa A. [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:38 AM
>>>> To: WebAIM forum ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
>>>> Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Hello,=20
>>>> (Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
>>>> I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec shows
>>>> an example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT tags. But
>>>> this does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5 do anything with
>>>> OPTGROUP).
>>>>=20
>>>>=20

--=20
Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
125 Western Ave.
Boston, MA 02134
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web site: ncam.wgbh.org

617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
617-300-2489 (TTY)

WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate,
inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of
learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.